Is it a crime if you rhyme every time? Here’s a dime. I’m slime.

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T

TaoManna Don

man of [quite a]few words
Words are just the building blocks. (a)
Rhyme becomes the glue. (b)
Music guarantees it rocks (a)
Scooby, dooby, doo. (b)

Well, dawggone it! Started with a good idea, then got tangled up in rhymes and my good idea turned into pure crap.

That ever happen to you?

I’ll bet there are plenty of good ideas among the members of this forum about the best use of rhyme in lyrics. Why don’t we collect those ideas right here? We can talk about types of rhyme, when to use rhyme, things to avoid when rhyming.

I’ll go first.

Can you rhyme too often in a song? Yes! The lines above use the common and overused a,b,a,b, rhyming structure. Too many rhymes! And in this case the rhyme became more important than the words and “Scooby, dooby, doo” turns a useful thought into light comedy. (You should note that the rhythm of the words is pretty good; but I inserted a “just” in the first line to make it closer in rhythm to line three. “Just” is a throw-away word, often used for “just” that purpose – to improve the rhythm. Don’t use throw-away words; rewrite the line.)

The ear loves to hear rhymes in all its forms:
Perfect (examples above)
Consonance (the final consonants are the same. Example: good/food, trip/creep)
Assonance (the vowels rhyme. Example: great/lane, steam/scene)
Etc.

But if you rhyme
Every time
You will be slime.
It is a crime,
And just pure crap,
Unless it’s rap.
But agin,
Maybe even then.

Vary the length of your lines. Don’t use rhymes at the end of every line. Use forms of rhyme other than the perfect rhymes our ears get tired of so quickly. I am currently working on a country song that has no end rhymes in the verses. I didn’t even realized there were no end rhymes at first. I varied the length of the lines where rhymes might be expected and the rhymes weren’t needed. That makes the rhymes in the chorus feel so good because you have to wait for them.

That’s enough from me right now. Give us some more ideas about rhyme usage.
Keep writing,
Don
 
In most pop songs the meter is the master so rhyming too much is an easy trap to fall into. Stephen Sondheim doesn't do that because musical theater is much more free in terms of songs that don't adhere to a rigid rhythmic structure. Even within a simple pop stucture there are plenty of opportunities to mix up the rhyming/alliteration scheme if you put your mind to it.

This for example:

I look at you all see the love there that’s sleeping
While my guitar gently weeps
I look at the floor and I see it needs sweeping
Still my guitar gently weeps
I don’t know why nobody told you how to unfold your love
I don’t know how someone controlled you
They bought and sold you.

I look at the world and I notice it’s turning
While my guitar gently weeps
With every mistake we must surely be learning
Still my guitar gently weeps
I don’t know how you were diverted
You were perverted too
I don’t know how you were inverted
No one alerted you.

I look at you all see the love there that’s sleeping
While my guitar gently weeps
Look at you all...
Still my guitar gently weeps.
 
hmm

do you actually think about all this while writing? I just let it come out naturally and if it sounds like rubbish I scratch it out and try again. sometimes I like rhyming and using cliches just because it's easy and I almost feel like I'm mocking the cliches... but I'm sure no one interprets it that way when listening. anyway... I just think it has to have a certain feel... regardless of rhyme or not.
 
Re: hmm

grn said:
do you actually think about all this while writing?
Click to expand...

You better believe it!

Well... let me qualify that: On my first draft I don't, but when it comes to re-writing, it's all I think about. The first draft or two is all about fleshing the story out and getting things in place. After that, it's all about making the lyrics singable. That's where the principles of assonance and alliteration come in - they turn a lyric that's hard to sing into one that glides right off the tongue.

That leads me to another thing - always check your lyrics out by singing them. If you get tongue tied or struggle with an awkward sounding phrase, change it. Unlike poetry, lyrics are not meant to be read aloud or in your head... they are meant to be sung! Given that, a songwriter has to realize that how lyrics sing is every bit as important as what they mean.

Here's an example: HOw many times have you stumbled through the line "Whose broad stripes and bright stars..." whan singing the national anthem? I've sung that song hundreds of times and slog throught that line every single time. Clearly Francis Scott Key did not check those words by singing them! A classic example of poetry used as lyrics.

A
www.aaroncheney.com
 
Internal rhyme is a very effective form of rhyme. The lines below are offered just to show an example of internal rhyme in one verse. If you say the words out loud you will notice that end rhyme isn't missed here at all because of the varied line lengths. If this was a real song, this would be the first verse of an AABA or AAA song and the title would be "I'll Be Keepin' Where I Been Sleepin' To Myself."

The sun is banging on my eyes so hard this morning.
They pry apart then "Oh God, who the hell is that?!"
I grab some clothes on my fastest tippy-toes and then I'm outta there.
I'll be keepin' where I been sleepin' to myself.

Keep writing,
Don

ps
Actually, after looking at it a few times, I kinda like this verse. It's very politically incorrect; but it might be ok as offbeat comedy. If I come up with more verses, I'll post them. I already have a pretty good melody for it.
 
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(I think this is a way old thread - but)

TaoManna Don said:
Words are just the building blocks. (a)
Rhyme becomes the glue. (b)
Music guarantees it rocks (a)
Scooby, dooby, doo. (b)

Well, dawggone it! Started with a good idea, then got tangled up in rhymes and my good idea turned into pure crap.

That ever happen to you?
Click to expand...


All the #(%&@!! time. Its why I've stopped writing. My stuff is pure meaningless crap.

Its like a disease,
like an urge to please
like a tickle in my brain

take any sound
whatever I've found
and match it again & again ...
 
Rhyme is fine.. Also dropping a exspected rhyme is a good device to lend the phrase importance..for examp. loose the rhyme and replace with a sylabic double...or something to that effect :)
 
Great thread. Bookmarked! Listen to A-Ha/Shapes that goes together /my favorite A-Ha tune(Official paraolympics theme 1994)

Regards
Emusic

Do I have to mention I'm Norwegian? :)
 
grn... i don't think about that stuff when I am writing either. Its gotta come out naturally. Everyone's got their own method i guess.
 
baerstev said:
grn... i don't think about that stuff when I am writing either. Its gotta come out naturally. Everyone's got their own method i guess.
Click to expand...

I don't think about it when Im writeing...but these are things that come to mind when Im editing..Everybodys got their own groove :)
 
I like this topic. This is the way I write lyrics. I suggest giving it a try and see if it fits your style, since there's no right or wrong way to write music.

I find that a great way to write (depends on musical style I suppose) is when you get a good song idea, put on a track that you can feel the groove to right away. It's best if it's upbeat, rock or reggae is what I prefer. Then just start writing and write what you feel. The lyrics are art too and you should let your thoughts be expressed without really worrying about rhyme and syllables too much. If you get to a point that won't rhyme and you get stuck, just delete it (or scratch it out if you're low tech) and try to rephrase it. Then when you write the perfect instrumental that fits it, just try it through a couple times singing the lyrics. If some parts don't fit, work out the kinks a little without messing up the original art. You may find that this way gives you excellent lyrics to go with your excellent music. Or, if this isn't a good way for you, and you're mind works completely differently than mine, your lyrics may really suck. Try it out, see what you think.

Peace
 
rhyme!

i use simple rhyme to do exactly what it sounds like... making things sound patronizingly simple! this morning i started writing the words to a song being a bit mean about people in general, and after a section using quite complex language, i intentionally went into much simpler language to sound patronizing and i found myself using simple and obvious rhymes to complement this. i also found myself not just rhyming, but repeating words. i like to do that to emphasise a point.

i also use it to make a link between the start of a verse and an end.
 
kill the rhyme

A lot of times rhyming your songs together just sounds like pure cheese, and when that starts to happen, try a new approach. Kill the rhyme all together. I remember when I first started writing songs I rhymed everything together at the end of each line. Then I caught on and started rhyming every other end line. But I try not to rhyme unless it sounds perfect now. Try this on for size. This is a song I wrote with the music which is a 4 chord progression with an alternating 4th chord every other time.

You're (A)rising too (E) fast
you (D flat) gotta to slow (B) down

(A) room so (E)bright
the (D flat) world it (A)shakes

its 8:15,
morning light

stayed up late
another night

late for work
never on time

hated work
hated life

drink of choice
bottom shelf

your falling too fast
you gotta to stand up straight

CHORUS

on the first day of the month
the moneys all gone

on the last day of the month
the times all gone

I do use rhymes still, but I try to make them not so obvious. And I try my hardest to stay away from cliche's, because it kills me when I hear a professional song with cliche's in it. And I don't want to do that to other people. I think one of the worst cliche's in a song ever has to be "Its closing time, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here." Ughh!
 
hmm - I remember reading somewhere, in the context of sonnets, about a 'braided' rhyme scheme. One thing, I've noticed is that you have to be really careful mixing rhyme and not rhyme. Like, if you have a 6 line verse and the last two lines only rhyme, thats' consistant, and so not so bad. If you have a non rhyming song, with rhymes suddenly appearing, that doesn't work. I feel a lot less bad about my rhyming since i've stopped writing. ...

seriously, I have been writing lyrics first, and that's just plain frustrating. now I'm working on getting more comfortable writing music (I still really feel like a trespasser like, music is for Musicians, I don't belong here - makes me overlook a lot of possiblities) and once I get a bit more at ease, I think the rhyming won't hurt.

ps: this is not lyrics, but I think the rhymes fit in pretty good with the meaning:

The Sucker

The Sucker comes late at night,
when I've prepared a feast.
The Sucker comes when light
is bright, opportunistic beast.

At my shoulder how it clings
marshy mouth beside my ear.
It feeds on me with these things,
words only I can hear:

"You know all is futility -
It is dark where there is hope
There is no utility;
Your efforts have no scope."

Day or dark, I feel your weight
as you can feel my need.
I try again to stand up straight,
but then, who will I feed?
 
I don't know if you guys listen to Badly Drawn Boy or not, but track 15 on the US release of One Plus One is One has a very funny line about rhyming.

Yesterday I saw movie
normally i call that a film
but it moved me
and no that doesn't rhyme with film
 
Rhymes aren't the problem. it's how you use them!

I think you can usualy spot a line where the writer has been stuck for a rhyme, comes up with a rhyming word, then retrospectively contrives a line (perhaps by twisting the normal order the words would be used in speech) in order to finish with that rhyme! I think inexperienced songwriters do that a lot.

Using less obvious rhyming 'sounds' rather than rhyming 'words' can assist in avoiding this problem. Also not to be afraid not to rhyme, if the vocalist can carry it off with the phrasing.

Using a songwriter's rhyme book can be usueful, if used sparingly. i use an online one when I'm really stuck and reach a 'block' where i can't complete a line.

Here's the link...

http://writingsongs.com/toolbox.htm

It's also useful to check the meaning of a word to make sure you're not using it incorrectly, which can be very embarassing if you've made your demo only to find out you used the worng word! There's also a Thesaurus to check for other words which mean the same thing.
 
Im not a fan of rap at all, however, I think emineme uses rhymes better than most. He uses rhymes that create a very catchy hook, without having to sing a note. I don't know how he does it. He always seems to get his point across with out sounding cheesey or using garbage words of space filler words, and the rhyme scheme is always interesting.....or maybe its the syncopation
 
imagineaudio said:
Im not a fan of rap at all, however, I think emineme uses rhymes better than most. He uses rhymes that create a very catchy hook, without having to sing a note. I don't know how he does it. He always seems to get his point across with out sounding cheesey or using garbage words of space filler words, and the rhyme scheme is always interesting.....or maybe its the syncopation
Click to expand...

One of the appealing things about Eminem is his use of humour. A lot of rappers you get the feeling they'd sooner shoot you as sing to you! This ailienates a lot of people who find it threatening. You get the feeling with Eminem that he doesn't take himself TOO seriously and injects some fun into his stuff (AND comes up with some great hooks as you said)! As a rule i don't like rap also, but I always find myself singing along to Eminems stuff.
 
im not clever enough to make it so that rhymes dont limit the subject of the song, so nothing of mine ever rhymes intentionally. when done well i dont think theres anything better.
 
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