Is 5:05 too long for an up beat modern country song?

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twangbuck

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It definitely doesn't feel that long. I was pretty surprised when I saw that run time. But I'm not exactly impartial. :D
Any words of wisdom out there? I know I'm not giving much to go on.
 
While i am definitely no expert on country nor how long a song should be, i write alot of songs myself, some of them feel like they take forever some feel like 1 minute they turn about to be about 5. i think anything over the 5:30 mark is pushing it to far. I like to try to keep all the song i write between 3:30 and 4:30. Yea its a big gap but it leaves room that may be needed
 
I have an internal resistance to songs that go over 4 minutes.

However, provided that there is sufficeint interest within the song to keep me engaged, I can happily listen to much longer songs.

Most of the time, though, it seems that the musical and lyrical story is finished within the first couple of minutes, after which it is just more of the same.
 
Hey, I just created a pop song that's a touch under 7 minutes... no-one who's listened to it in the MP3 clinic has said, "That's too long". Depends entirely upon the quality of the music your making.

There have been many famous long hit singles... although they're not the norm.

And, final advice, do what you want to do.... don't workshop it and ask for opinions about the core of what it is you're doing. Believe in it. 5:05 - bring it on. Where's the link?
 
I've done "pop" songs that ran out to 7 minutes :eek: in the past....but these days I'm like gecko zzed, and try not to exceed 4 minutes. I'm just finishing up a couple of songs now, and they are both right there.
One of them was at one point hitting 5 minutes, and after reviewing my arrangement, I saw that there was definitely some fat that could be trimmed off that would actually improve on the song rather than take away from it.

Take a close look at what you have...I bet there's some repetition that can be trimmed off, or maybe too much intro/outro frills.....or long leads, which was my offense on a lot of stuff in the past. Gratuitous riffing...:D
Now I just do a couple measures as needed to break up the lyrics, and let it go at that.
 
Too long for what?

If you're recording it for the amusement of yourself and your friends and associates, whatever length amuses you and your friends and associates is fine. Obviously, you can speak for yourself. As for your friends and associates, it somewhat depends on who they are, and they're presumably available for commentary (though perhaps not as reliable as brutally honest anonymous people on message boards).

If you're trying to sell it, or trying to approximate something that would be sale-able if you were trying to sell it, that's another matter. I'm not an expert in country songwriting, but I have the impression it's one area (perhaps one of the few), where the rules of the game strongly favor old-fashioned by-the-book work. For one thing, a large amount of country music is still done the old-fashioned way, where songwriters write songs and sell them to performers, rather than the artist-who-does-everything approach that's more common elsewhere. If so, I'm guessing you'd better stop at 4 minutes, whether you're done or not.
 
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Yeah it's to try to sell. I think where I'm at is definitely the max in terms of length. There are some instrumental melodic hooks going on that sound a little incomplete when I trim them back. They're not riffs just for sake of noodling, they're more melodic hooks.
There is a dedicated solo section that I can try to trim, so I may experiment by trimming that back. That would take me down around 4:45 or so.
I did look at a number of cd's by various modern country acts on amazon, and most of them had one or two cuts on each cd that were over the 5 minute mark. One of them was even the second track on teh cd, and it was pushing 5:30 if I remember correctly.
But I don't want to push my luck that far! Thanks all.
 
In the latest CD project I'm working on, there are 13 tracks, and the playing time is 55 minutes. That makes the average track length about 4:15. However, there are two tracks that are markedly longer than the others, one at 5:23, the other at 5:28.

These two tracks need to be that long. Every bit of them is important and adds something to the musical story.

Something being "too long" is not determined so much by how long it goes for, but more how long it goes before it becomes predictable and uninteresting.
 
gecko zzed said:
Something being "too long" is not determined so much by how long it goes for, but more how long it goes before it becomes predictable and uninteresting.
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Yeah...back in the day, it was all about being under 3 minutes NO MATTER WHAT....but it does depend on the song, the arrangement, the production, the interest it can hold for a listener.
If you can keep them focused for 10 minutes.....go fro it. :)

I just find that most pop songs have a LOT of leeway as to how they can be presented, so if you drop a verse or what have you, the listener will never miss it.....you might miss it....but they wont.
 
Modern Country is a label that worries me - reminds me of dudes in hats posturing like 80's rockers .
Take a mid tempo song, put on a hat & act like an unreconstituted rocker but add a slide or steel solo sort of thing.
If the musical & lyrical stories carry it off go with it but don't forget that some of the worst recordings in history were because the feel was cool for a jam.
 
you will never sell a song of that length in country music..get to the chorus in less than 60 seconds and out of the song in 3 minutes..4 minutes max..if you are trying to sell it as a writer, take out any fluff (intros, solos, etc) to cut it down..
 
I write to get published - and since the country genre is one of the few genres that still depends a lot on outside writers, I write in the genre often (and have been placed a few times). I work with two publishers who are successful in placing songs in the country genre - and neither or them really likes to handle a song that is more than about 3:30 (I can maybe push to 4:00, but it really has to be a great song with a good reason why it takes that long to tell the story).

If your "country" song is at 5:00 you need to determine why the story takes so long. Can you shorten the intro? Is there a guitar solo that can be shortened (or eliminated)? Or possibly you simply have to find a way to tell the story more effectively and eliminate a verse.

Someone else suggested that in country you need to hit the chorus quickly (I think certainly at under 2:00). Someone else suggested that many songs that go past about 3:00 are likely starting to become redundant. I think both statements are correct.

Being able to tell a story in 3:00 in where the art of songwriting moves into the craft of songwriting - and anyone who seriously wants to market themselves as a writer (vs. an artist) needs to embrace the craft as well as the art.
 
twangbuck said:
It definitely doesn't feel that long. I was pretty surprised when I saw that run time. But I'm not exactly impartial. :D
Any words of wisdom out there? I know I'm not giving much to go on.
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i would think it depends on the context. if you're submitting it to a radio station, it may not be a favourable length. i know one DJ who plays music for a local radio station, and anything longer than 4 minutes is frowned upon.
 
Gidge said:
you will never sell a song of that length in country music..get to the chorus in less than 60 seconds and out of the song in 3 minutes..4 minutes max..if you are trying to sell it as a writer, take out any fluff (intros, solos, etc) to cut it down..
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100% agreed
 
gecko zzed said:
I have an internal resistance to songs that go over 4 minutes.

However, provided that there is sufficeint interest within the song to keep me engaged, I can happily listen to much longer songs.

Most of the time, though, it seems that the musical and lyrical story is finished within the first couple of minutes, after which it is just more of the same.
Click to expand...

Yep. Better to leave the audience wanting more than to over-expose your hook.
 
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