iPod D/A converters

S

spindrummer82

New member
I didn't really know where to put this so I figured it could go in here. My roommate and I both have 2nd gen iPod mini's and Shure E2c headphones that we listen to them on. We both also have nice Sony MDR-V600 closed ear headphones. When I first got the Shures, everyone said that they lacked some bass response and sure enough, they did. My roommate blew out his Sony headphones recently so today, he used his Shures plugged into his firebox instead of the usual Sony's. He IM's me (yes even though we're only 15 ft apart) to tell me that the bass is really deep. In disbelief I plug my Shures into my Echo Layla (which i had never done before because I usually use my Sony's) and listen to some music. Sure enough, the bass is unbelievably deep and it sounds phenomenal. (mp3s used for comparison were ripped with V2 vbr so they were of good quality)

This all lead to the conclusion that the DA converters on an ipod blow. I figured they wouldn't be great but the difference was astounding. This got us to thinking how sweet an Apogee Ipod would be or at least an Ipod with converters on par with most of the prosumer stuff out there. I realize that this would a very small market but there really isn't any media player that I know of that has boasted about great converters and I'm sure most people here would be down for one.

thoughts? comments? anyone hacked an ipod and replaced the converters?
 
spindrummer82 said:
I didn't really know where to put this so I figured it could go in here. My roommate and I both have 2nd gen iPod mini's and Shure E2c headphones that we listen to them on. We both also have nice Sony MDR-V600 closed ear headphones. When I first got the Shures, everyone said that they lacked some bass response and sure enough, they did. My roommate blew out his Sony headphones recently so today, he used his Shures plugged into his firebox instead of the usual Sony's. He IM's me (yes even though we're only 15 ft apart) to tell me that the bass is really deep. In disbelief I plug my Shures into my Echo Layla (which i had never done before because I usually use my Sony's) and listen to some music. Sure enough, the bass is unbelievably deep and it sounds phenomenal. (mp3s used for comparison were ripped with V2 vbr so they were of good quality)

This all lead to the conclusion that the DA converters on an ipod blow. I figured they wouldn't be great but the difference was astounding. This got us to thinking how sweet an Apogee Ipod would be or at least an Ipod with converters on par with most of the prosumer stuff out there. I realize that this would a very small market but there really isn't any media player that I know of that has boasted about great converters and I'm sure most people here would be down for one.

thoughts? comments? anyone hacked an ipod and replaced the converters?
Click to expand...

How sweet and how big and expensive an iPod with apogee coverters would be, that was my first thought.
 
Why bother putting good converters into a thing that plays music through earbuds?

I guess if you're using different headphones though...but still. :confused:
 
danny.guitar said:
Why bother putting good converters into a thing that plays music through earbuds?

I guess if you're using different headphones though...but still. :confused:
Click to expand...

Yes, that's a good point. All these portable mp3 players suck, don't they? Still can't beat a pair of Koss Porta Pros plugged into an MD player. Still pretty portable, and sounds just fine.

10,000 song storage - how many hours are there in a day??
 
robin watson said:
Yes, that's a good point. All these portable mp3 players suck, don't they? Still can't beat a pair of Koss Porta Pros plugged into an MD player. Still pretty portable, and sounds just fine.

10,000 song storage - how many hours are there in a day??
Click to expand...

Yea, fuck portable mp3 players... Im gonna go back to what I was using beforehand...

1744_2926-712839.jpg


or maybe this little guy:

soundburger.jpg
 
I highly doubt the lack of bass is due to DA converters. It's likely due to the Amp design, and could even be a consious decision to extend battery life.
 
Thats a good point about the amp design to save battery life.

I realize that such a device isn't very feasible. The difference between the two was just a lot bigger than I thought it would be.
 
Another factor in the SH!TT!NESS of MP3 players, is the MP3 files themselves and the lack of high fidelity at the low bit rates & high compression.
A studio today can go 24 bit / 192khz where as an MP3 is 16 bit /44.1 and most are compressed at 128kbps.
Even a CD is 16 bit @ 44.1khz --- so below "studio quality"
Basically, a 128kps MP3 is like a cheap cassette minus the hiss, in regards to audio fidelity.
And don't you find the bottom end distorts more ?

check out WIKIPEDIA on MP3 for some more info ---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3
 
So, I've got this Ipod Nano. It's so thin and small I frequently can't find it when it's right in my pocket. I really think our expectations these days are out of proportion, and I fear we have lost our ability to be amazed at or appreciate anything. That you can take something not a lot thicker than a credit card and put thousands of songs on it, and have it sound as good as it does is magical.
 
Robert D said:
So, I've got this Ipod Nano. It's so thin and small I frequently can't find it when it's right in my pocket. I really think our expectations these days are out of proportion, and I fear we have lost our ability to be amazed at or appreciate anything. That you can take something not a lot thicker than a credit card and put thousands of songs on it, and have it sound as good as it does is magical.
Click to expand...

It is magical, just not musical.
 
noisewreck said:
I highly doubt the lack of bass is due to DA converters. It's likely due to the Amp design, and could even be a consious decision to extend battery life.
Click to expand...

Agreed. They crippled the bass on Sandisk Sansas, but because of it they benefit from an insane amount of battery life. You may want to try putting Rockbox on there. At the least, it gives you a very nice EQ that could make up for the lack of bass response.
 
spindrummer82 said:
Thats a good point about the amp design to save battery life.

I realize that such a device isn't very feasible. The difference between the two was just a lot bigger than I thought it would be.
Click to expand...

Amplifier circuits are designed to deliver a certain wattage into a given load. If you aren't getting enough bass response, odds are the load is wrong for the particular amplifier circuit. If the amplifier circuit has too high an output impedance for a particular speaker (if your headphones are too low an impedance in the bass range) this will manifest itself as a lack of bass response.

http://www.transcendentsound.com/amplifier_output_impedance.htm

This is not necessarily a sign that either device is poorly designed; rather, it is a sign that the two devices (in this case, the headphones and the Mini) are a poor match.

That said, IIRC, several of the early iPod models were criticized for weak bass response. I couldn't tell you if that one was or not. The bass response in my iPod Shuffle (1st generation white monolith) is a pretty drastic improvement over my 1st gen iPod, so it could be that they just hadn't gotten the output impedance quite right 2 1/2 years ago when the 2nd gen iPod Mini came out. I'm not sure.
 
I'd guess the lack of bass is because there is no way to fit big enough output capacitors in that package.

I've used my 3rd gen iPod as a test tone generator, and it's dead flat from 20 to 20K Hz into a line level load. But I haven't tried to measure it with 'phones attached.
 
timthetortoise said:
Agreed. They crippled the bass on Sandisk Sansas, but because of it they benefit from an insane amount of battery life. You may want to try putting Rockbox on there. At the least, it gives you a very nice EQ that could make up for the lack of bass response.
Click to expand...

I have a C140 Sandisk Sansa, it has a variery of EQ settings, doesn't his feature allow for adding more bass, which may in turn, eat your battery. Actually, I find more bass added to 128 MP3's = instant distortion of the bottom end = Yuck !!!
 
You're talking about digital/analogue conversion quality AND MP3s AND iPods?
It's about convenience not quality.
Next you'll buy an iPod stereo system dock.
I GIVE you 30 points head start though for not using earbuds!
 
Yeah the Bose will be accurate, sonically corrected and REALLY bad for your hearing.
But what's the use of accuracy when the MP3 is sonically compromised and the play back units use mega bass style EQ presets to (over) compensate for it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top