Intonation problems out the whazoo!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rokket
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Rokket

Rokket

Trailing Behind Again
I did the collab for guitarhunny, and lo and behold, it turns out that I was having pitch problems (about 15 cents off according to Bruce). He was right. I checked out my intonation and it was waaaayyyyy off.

Now it gets sticky. I had it "professionally" set up when I bought it. Every note was in tune all the way to the 24th fret, all five strings. I had changed out strings about a year ago, same brand, same guage, so I thought I was OK. I wasn't... :(

Even after I got the notes at the octave on the 12th fret intoned, almost every note on the fretboard is still sharp. I am at a loss. How in the hell do I do this? I've never had this problem until now. The bass is 5 years old, and it's got a wonderful tone.

Can someone help me get this thing set right again? Remember that I am in Japan, and the language barrier aside, I don't think I can find a good tech in this backward city I am in. I will have to do this myself...
 
One more question about the truss rod: Which way do I turn the damn thing to flatten the neck back out. It's developed a real bad bow, and the strings are almost 3/8" of an inch off the neck at the higher frets (I have a feeling this may be lending to my intonation problem)...

Dragonworks, or any other guitar tweeker, please help me!!!
 
Clockwise will tighten the Trussrod (Hence countering the string tension, but don't over do it, don't go more than a quarter-turn at a time, and be sure to allow plenty of time in between truss adjustments, at least 24 hours, I usually go 2 days). Often humidity and temperature change alone are enough to completely whack out your neck (Basses are especially susceptable to this). Once you get your neck flat (Not completely flat, You still need some relief around the 5th fret), check your intonation, if it appears sharp still, try moving the saddle back a bit and retune, and recheck.
 
To help combat this problem, I use a guitar stand that suspends the guitar from the headstock and supports the back of the body with 2 feet (As would be used for odd shaped guitars...i.e. any BC Rich). The way it is positioned on the stand, the Basses own weight is enough to create a steady balance, against the elements, and I have never had neck problems with any of my basses, or acoustics since I started using them. You could also try using a wallmount stand, which will give you the same benefits. Chances are that is how your bass was used to living when it was still in the music shop, and now that it is home possibly sitting on a regular stand, It needs some tweaking. I can't even count how many Acoustics I've bought that sounded absolutely wonderful and played like a dream, until a week out of the climate controlled acoustic rooms of my area shops.
 
After straightening the neck, play a 12th fret harmonic and compare it to the fretted note on the 12th. If the fretted note is sharp, you need to bring the saddle back a bit (away from the neck) to create more distance between the nut and saddle. If the fretted note is flat, move the saddle towards the neck. What kind of bass is it, usually the saddle piece is "hung" to the rest of the bridge by a screw, which is used to adjust intonation?
 
Rokket said:
I had changed out strings about a year ago, same brand, same guage, so I thought I was OK. I wasn't... :(
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Forgive me if I misunderstood this, but does this mean you haven't changed your strings in a year??? :eek: I always found that my guitar doesnt sound in tune all over the neck if the strings are old.
 
ibanezrocks said:
Forgive me if I misunderstood this, but does this mean you haven't changed your strings in a year??? :eek: I always found that my guitar doesnt sound in tune all over the neck if the strings are old.
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Yeah, they are old... :o

I am going to restring it and set it up again. I am using a run of the mill basic guitar stand, so that may be a problem too...


Thanks for the help! I will see what happens with a string change and another shot at intonation.
 
reshp1 said:
After straightening the neck, play a 12th fret harmonic and compare it to the fretted note on the 12th. If the fretted note is sharp, you need to bring the saddle back a bit (away from the neck) to create more distance between the nut and saddle. If the fretted note is flat, move the saddle towards the neck. What kind of bass is it, usually the saddle piece is "hung" to the rest of the bridge by a screw, which is used to adjust intonation?
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It's an ESP B-205. The saddles are hung on a screw with a spring around the screw.
 
Yeah, those will be easy enough to adjust. Looking from the butt pin of the guitar toward the neck, turn clockwise if the 12th fret fretted note is sharp compared to the harmonic, counterclockwise if the fretted note is flat.
 
reshp1 said:
Yeah, those will be easy enough to adjust. Looking from the butt pin of the guitar toward the neck, turn clockwise if the 12th fret fretted note is sharp compared to the harmonic, counterclockwise if the fretted note is flat.
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Depending on how far you need to bring the saddle back, and depending on how the action changes with any neck adjustment, you may also need to lower the action a bit to via the 2 allen screws in the saddle (I assume that is the type of bridge you have (Counter-Clockwise to lower the saddle). Get it as low as you can without buzz on any of the frets (With medium force pick or pluck), and if you play heavy maybe raise each one back up a half-turn. Also I find it easier to adjust the intonation if you take the tension of the string first (And puts far less strain on your string as it rides across the top of the saddle), especially if the string angle over the saddle is anything but almost straight.
 
Hey, thanks for all the help out there! I am going to get a new set of strings today and change them out. I think my problems started with the last change out, because I was an idiot and I wanted to clean the guitar up, so I removed all the strings at the same time. I was looking around on various sites that tell me that'a a no-no, because it takes all the tension off the neck, and the truss rod will naturally bend it.

Again, thanks. I will let you know how it turns out!
 
I don't know...I change all the strings at once on all my guitars and have never had a problem. I don't think that the short amount of time will allow for much movement in the neck. I find that I generally have to tweak the truss rods in my guitars about 1-2 times a year depending on temperature/moisture. Running the heat in the winter, and the AC in the summer does cause the wood to move a bit. When you adjust your intonation make sure to do it in the playing position, as this will be more accurate for your touch. If you fret the string too hard it will show as sharp when compared to the harmonic, so try to be as consistent as you can. This is also why I do all my own set-ups, they're set up for my touch, not the repair person's.
 
SteveK said:
I don't know...I change all the strings at once on all my guitars and have never had a problem. I don't think that the short amount of time will allow for much movement in the neck. I find that I generally have to tweak the truss rods in my guitars about 1-2 times a year depending on temperature/moisture. Running the heat in the winter, and the AC in the summer does cause the wood to move a bit. When you adjust your intonation make sure to do it in the playing position, as this will be more accurate for your touch. If you fret the string too hard it will show as sharp when compared to the harmonic, so try to be as consistent as you can. This is also why I do all my own set-ups, they're set up for my touch, not the repair person's.
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Point well taken.

The good news is, I changed out the strings, and with the help of that web page that scrubs gave me, I was able to adjust the truss rod and get the intonation reset on my bass. She purrs like a kitten now! :D

Thanks again for everyone's help. You just prove time and again that this is a great board! :cool:
 
I told you that thing was out back in February! Why the hell are you just now getting around to fixing it?
 
Dead strings will sound sharper as you travel up the neck. I will be very surprised if your strings aren't dead after a year. I change mine *at least* once a month - once a week if I'm gigging regularly.

It could be that there is nothing wrong with the guitar at all.

Taking all the strings off the guitar at once shouldn't do any harm. You have to do this once in a while to clean the hardware properly.

As long as they aren't left off for more than a few hours and are loosened gradually I doubt this will have had any impact.
 
Rokket said:
I did the collab for guitarhunny, and lo and behold, it turns out that I was having pitch problems (about 15 cents off according to Bruce). He was right. I checked out my intonation and it was waaaayyyyy off.

Now it gets sticky. I had it "professionally" set up when I bought it. Every note was in tune all the way to the 24th fret, all five strings. I had changed out strings about a year ago, same brand, same guage, so I thought I was OK. I wasn't... :(

Even after I got the notes at the octave on the 12th fret intoned, almost every note on the fretboard is still sharp. I am at a loss. How in the hell do I do this? I've never had this problem until now. The bass is 5 years old, and it's got a wonderful tone.

Can someone help me get this thing set right again? Remember that I am in Japan, and the language barrier aside, I don't think I can find a good tech in this backward city I am in. I will have to do this myself...
Click to expand...

i posted a huge topic on intonation and truss rod adjustments a while back. search for it.
 
Codmate said:
Dead strings will sound sharper as you travel up the neck. I will be very surprised if your strings aren't dead after a year. I change mine *at least* once a month - once a week if I'm gigging regularly.

It could be that there is nothing wrong with the guitar at all.

Taking all the strings off the guitar at once shouldn't do any harm. You have to do this once in a while to clean the hardware properly.

As long as they aren't left off for more than a few hours and are loosened gradually I doubt this will have had any impact.
Click to expand...
Ditto, I take my strings all off at once (Gradually of course (about every 2 or 3 months...I like the well broken in feel)). It is neccessary in order to oil the fretboard (Ever tried too with the strings on????). Never had a problem.
 
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