Internal IDE disks vs. External Firewire or USB 2.0 disks

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DaveO

DaveO

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I'm looking for a second disk for my PC and am trying to find out the advantages and disadvantages of secondary internal IDE drives and external drives (either USB 2.0 or FireWire). I searched this forum for info and didn't find anything, so ...

My PC is a Dell Dimension 4100 with a 1 GHz Pentium III, 512 M RAM, and a single internal 60 GB drive (7200 RPM). It also has an internal DVD-ROM, CD-RW, and 250 MB Zip.

I am looking for a secondary drive to use for both music projects and video editing and creating VCDs and also DVDs once I get a DVD burner. As of today I haven't started video editing but I'm looking for a video capture device and will start that once I find one I like. Right now I plan to just convert my Hi-8 videotapes to VCD and/or DVD but eventually I'd like to be able to edit out the boring stuff and compile the "good stuff" into disks with titles, menus, audio, etc. For audio I do mostly small projects, 20 tracks max with plugins on maybe half of them. I don't expect to use teh disk for permanent storage of audio or video projects since I'll eventually move then off to CD-Rs or DVDs. Mostly it would be for working space, so I don't expect to buy a disk with cutting edge capacity, probably 80 GB max.

I'm guesesing I'd get better performance from an internal drive, especially the Western Digital Caviar Edition drives I was looking at. However, since my music projects are small I may not tax the drive too much. So maybe the flexibility of the external FireWire or USB 2.0 drive would be worthwhile since I could easily move it between any of the PCs in the house. However, I'm not sure if video editing would be too much for the external drives. I also understrand the external drives are more expensive than the internals, but I since I'm not buying teh largest disk avaialble I don't think the price difference would mean too much to me.
a don't expect to buy anything larger than 80 GB so the cost difference probably doesn't matter too much to me. In fact, it may be cheaper since I'd probably buy a second drive for at least one of the other PCs (a slightly older, slightly lesser equipped Dell that may also get some use doing video editing).

So based on those needs, what do you all think of the external drives? Does they seem like they're worthwhile or should I stick with a dedicated internal drive for the first PC?


Dave O.
 
I just got a Maxtor 120 gig 5400 rpm external. It's running through usb too. It's not fast enough to record my multitrack music on, so I'm using it for storage. I have a fast 20 gig internal for tracking and playing back. I figure I do my project and when I'm done I send it on over to the 120 gig and delete the project from my 20 gig hd. Seems to be doing what I want, so I'm happy with it.
 
Nik,

Here's a question I'm almost afraid to ask, given how often I do it myself, but how often and onto what medium do you back up your 120 GB drive? Backups are the main reason I don't want to use too large a drive so I really only want the secondary drive for working space, then I can offload the completed projects onto some other medium. For now that will be CD, but I'm sure I'll have a DVD-R or some other format eventually. But still, even with a DVD burner I'm looking at about 16 DVDs for an 80 GB drive.

The only reason I want to go up to about 80 GB is for doing video editing. If I remember correctly it's about 4 GB per 20 minutes, so I need 24 GB for a single two-hour Hi-8 tape. Then I figured I might need to keep two, maybe three tapes, online at once so I'm up to 48 GB to 72 GB. Then a few song projects at a few GB a piece and I'm up to 60-80 GB.

And you know, even though it's only temporary space, I probably DO need to figure out how to do backups of at least individual projects. So here I go, once again, deeper into the money pit that is my hobby.
 
When you want to do video editing, don't skimp on performance. It's one of the most intensive tasks imaginable, especially for hard drives and memory. Video pros often even go for scsi drives and that is not without reason. So just get an internal drive. If you want to move files between the computers in your house, tie them together with a LAN.
 
I understand it's intensive, but I'm also not looking to produce anything like sci-fi movies with a lot of effects. My real objective is just to take videotapes and put them onto VCD/SVCD/DVD. Maybe if I get creative and have the time to do it I could edit out the good parts onto compliation discs. As far as video editing goes that didn't seem too fancy to me, so that's one of the factors that got me wondering about an external disk.

I do have a home network, so moving the files around is certainly possible, but it's also time consuming. Another reason I have a new CD-RW on this PC is so I could remove the old one and put it into the oldest PC. Doing a CD-R backup over the network gave me a lot of coasters so I started moving files onto a "staging area" I set up on another PC, then I did CD backup on there. That got time consuming and I did fewer backups than I should have. So, yeah, moving files could work but I also found it to be tedious and I started to think about external disks. But I wouldn't consider a USB 1.x disk (do they even have them?), only FireWire or USB 2.0.
 
I would say the only useful thing about an external drive such as a FW or USB 2 is when you're talking about mobile recording with a laptop.

Otherwise, you're talking about a decrease of 133MB/sec or 100MB/sec down to the 40-50MB/sec transfer of firewire.

For 16-20 tracks, that'll work, but anything to crazy and you start having trouble.

I went with an OWC drive with an Oxford911 chipset for an external drive, and it's doing well. But I only use it with my Gateway notebook.
 
Yeah, I'm probably better of with an internal disk like the special edition Western Digitals I was looking at. I'll just wait until the prices come down a little more and buy one for each of our home PCs. Then I'll see if my wife can pester her work to buy her an external disk for her laptop so she could at least plug it into our home network when she needs to.

Thanks all.



Dave O.
 
I sent a similar question to a sweetwater sales rep, and his answer, which I thought was very informative, is below:

Q:
>I have another question for you. My PC-based DAW is
>currently running on a Sony VAIO, with a 60GB, 5400rpm
>EIDE hard drive (sectioned into C: and D: drives).
>I've been looking to get a dedicated drive for audio
>files, and wanted to get your input on a few things.
>I'm thinking seriously about a firewire drive (higher
>data transfer rate, etc). Are there differences
>between a commercial firewire drive (say a Buslink
>drive I could buy at any old computer shop) and one of
>the drives that's 'optimized for audio' which are
>available through you guys? I'm most curious due to
>the difference in price (a commercial 40GB drive can
>be had for ~$150). Also, have you guys had any
>experience using firewire versus an EIDE 7200rpm
>drive. Thoughts, suggestions?

A:
I'd highly suggest the Glyph Companion because they are optimized for
Audio and will last longer and give you better performance. They differ
and are better for audio because for several reasons.

1.) AC Filter which filers the power coming into the drive and cleans
it up

2.) 18 guage wire which helps eliminate peaks and valleys and again
keeps the drive running longer. Most of the competition uses 24 guage
wire at best.

3.) Hefty Power Supply is lested at 25 volts!! Brown out conditions!
No other drive will do this.

4.) They use IBM drive exclusively where other companies will use
whatever is cheapest at the time, with no concern over the reputation of the
drive company.

5.) Teflon-Ribbon cable which minimizes crosstalk and helps to maximize
the drives to run at there highest efficiency. Competition usually
uses typical gray ribbon cables.

6.) Bridgeboard is oxford 911 chipset which is optimized for audio.
Most drives are optimized for normal business and word file use. These
are optimized for audio.
_________________________________________

YMMV.

-mg
 
mgraffeo said:
I sent a similar question to a sweetwater sales rep, and his answer, which I thought was very informative, is below:

Q:
>I have another question for you. My PC-based DAW is
>currently running on a Sony VAIO, with a 60GB, 5400rpm
>EIDE hard drive (sectioned into C: and D: drives).
>I've been looking to get a dedicated drive for audio
>files, and wanted to get your input on a few things.
>I'm thinking seriously about a firewire drive (higher
>data transfer rate, etc). Are there differences
>between a commercial firewire drive (say a Buslink
>drive I could buy at any old computer shop) and one of
>the drives that's 'optimized for audio' which are
>available through you guys? I'm most curious due to
>the difference in price (a commercial 40GB drive can
>be had for ~$150). Also, have you guys had any
>experience using firewire versus an EIDE 7200rpm
>drive. Thoughts, suggestions?

A:
I'd highly suggest the Glyph Companion because they are optimized for
Audio and will last longer and give you better performance. They differ
and are better for audio because for several reasons.

1.) AC Filter which filers the power coming into the drive and cleans
it up

2.) 18 guage wire which helps eliminate peaks and valleys and again
keeps the drive running longer. Most of the competition uses 24 guage
wire at best.

3.) Hefty Power Supply is lested at 25 volts!! Brown out conditions!
No other drive will do this.

4.) They use IBM drive exclusively where other companies will use
whatever is cheapest at the time, with no concern over the reputation of the
drive company.

5.) Teflon-Ribbon cable which minimizes crosstalk and helps to maximize
the drives to run at there highest efficiency. Competition usually
uses typical gray ribbon cables.

6.) Bridgeboard is oxford 911 chipset which is optimized for audio.
Most drives are optimized for normal business and word file use. These
are optimized for audio.
_________________________________________

YMMV.

-mg
Click to expand...

I personally take anything a salesperson says with a grain of salt. They are only out to make their money and if you think otherwise, you are setting yourself up for dissapointment. I buy based on facts I gather myself - none of what is in that email is listed on the Glyph website.

Besides, its still a Firewire drive which means its still inferior to a standard IDE interface.
 
Actually my 120 gig is backup. I do all my recording and editing onto my 20 gig internal. I figure that my 120 gig backup external hd will last 2 or more years before I fill it up.
 
mgraffeo said:
I sent a similar question to a sweetwater sales rep, and his answer, which I thought was very informative, is below:

Q:
>I have another question for you. My PC-based DAW is
>currently running on a Sony VAIO, with a 60GB, 5400rpm
>EIDE hard drive (sectioned into C: and D: drives).
>I've been looking to get a dedicated drive for audio
>files, and wanted to get your input on a few things.
>I'm thinking seriously about a firewire drive (higher
>data transfer rate, etc). Are there differences
>between a commercial firewire drive (say a Buslink
>drive I could buy at any old computer shop) and one of
>the drives that's 'optimized for audio' which are
>available through you guys? I'm most curious due to
>the difference in price (a commercial 40GB drive can
>be had for ~$150). Also, have you guys had any
>experience using firewire versus an EIDE 7200rpm
>drive. Thoughts, suggestions?

A:
I'd highly suggest the Glyph Companion because they are optimized for
Audio and will last longer and give you better performance. They differ
and are better for audio because for several reasons.

1.) AC Filter which filers the power coming into the drive and cleans
it up

2.) 18 guage wire which helps eliminate peaks and valleys and again
keeps the drive running longer. Most of the competition uses 24 guage
wire at best.

3.) Hefty Power Supply is lested at 25 volts!! Brown out conditions!
No other drive will do this.

4.) They use IBM drive exclusively where other companies will use
whatever is cheapest at the time, with no concern over the reputation of the
drive company.

5.) Teflon-Ribbon cable which minimizes crosstalk and helps to maximize
the drives to run at there highest efficiency. Competition usually
uses typical gray ribbon cables.

6.) Bridgeboard is oxford 911 chipset which is optimized for audio.
Most drives are optimized for normal business and word file use. These
are optimized for audio.
_________________________________________

YMMV.

-mg
Click to expand...

Of course they're going to tell you that, they make lots of money off of Glyph drives. Just like I will tell you a Sigma lens is as good as a Nikon or Canon lens, because I sell cameras for a living, and I make more money on Sigma.
 
I've got a second internal drive which is a Seagate Barracuda 40 gig IDE and a Cobra EZ Quest 120 gig Firewire external drive. Both are 7200rpm and the Firewire drive has the 911 Oxford chip. I use 2 to 4 gig partitions on each, and I use them both as audio only drives with the OS and recording software on the original drive which is an IBM.

I'm confident in saying that their performances are the same.

I've done comparisons using sessions where I push the computer past its limit. The performance is always the same. I run Mac OS 9.1 on a G4. I don't know if my experience applies to Windows or not.

And I'm not tying to sell firewire drives.;)
 
Without going into great detail, I'd say buy internal IDE. Cheaper, faster. Use the extra cash for something else, and to buy a bigger drive. The Western Digital drives are fine, I have a 120 gig example in the machine I'm using right now.

As for the stuff from the Sweetwater guy, you can buy very high-end IDE cabling for about $20. And IBM hard drives are nothing to brag about - average at best.
 
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