Instrumental + Vocal Mixing ?'s (Basic)

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Nagela

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Hi everyone. For starters I use Edit: Reaper now

Basically what I do is take instrumentals from (mostly anime) songs.
Use those instrumentals, and sing vocals over them to perfectly fit into the way they were originally sung.

Now the issue is, when these two things (instrumental + vocals) are put together, the instrumentals seem to drown out part of my vocal and make it sound "muddy". I have found a way to lessen this issue, by lowering the DB of the instrumental.

*Quick question*: I know increasing the DB of something on Audacity to like +10 makes the sound go all muddy and blurry, but does decreasing the DB have any negative effects to it? (When I decrease the DB to -10 it still sounds the same to me, just lower volume which is what I'm aiming for.)

Advice on how to mix would greatly be appreciated.
Perhaps someone can link me to a basic guide....
I don't know what to do with EQ's and anything... if you're going to reply please, please keep in mind I'm still new and I've just started to learn about microphones and singing and mixing, it won't be helpful if I can't understand what you are trying to tell me.

Thank you in advance for replying, and taking time to help me out!
 
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You basically have the right idea. Turn the music down, don't turn your vocals up. There's absolutely no harm done when turning down a track. But there can be lots of harm done when turning one up too much, as you've witnessed with the distorted sound you get when you push your vocals up.

Good luck.
 
RAMI said:
You basically have the right idea. Turn the music down, don't turn your vocals up. There's absolutely no harm done when turning down a track. But there can be lots of harm done when turning one up too much, as you've witnessed with the distorted sound you get when you push your vocals up.

Good luck.
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Thank you for the affirmation!
I'm trying to make this song I'm recording as best as possible, because I'm dedicating it someone extremely important to me, and I don't want it to sound terrible and meaningless.

Hopefully I can learn more about EQ's and such so I can make my vocals sound more 'in sync' with the instrumentals.
 
The muddiness you hear when you turn up the volume to +10dB is clipping - distortion caused by overdriving some part of the system. Keep the volume down during tracking and mixing, and boost it during the mastering process.
 
mjbphotos said:
The muddiness you hear when you turn up the volume to +10dB is clipping - distortion caused by overdriving some part of the system. Keep the volume down during tracking and mixing, and boost it during the mastering process.
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Yup, so far I'm just going to attempt to decrease the instrumental, leave the vocals the same. If I need the vocals to be higher I can always just increase my microphones input level.

Because you guys informed me that decreasing the DB of a track does no harm at all, I will probably decrease it by -10DB, so my voice is more clear and quieter words that I sing don't vanish in the middle of the song.
 
Two thing:

First off, don't worry about the numbers. LISTEN to your mix (maybe even with your eyes shut) and set the level to wherever it needs to be to sound good. Well, don't ignore the number totally--as was said, pushing them too high can cause clipping--but the final decision should be by sound, not just an arbitrary number. Also, don't assume you have to leave the levels the same throughout the sound. As long as you're subtle you can raise and lower the levels to suit throughout the mix.

Second, a trick I often use when working with pre-recorded music is to apply some slight EQ to the music track to to cut a hole where the voice sits. I haven't heard your voice but as a starting point, try cutting the frequencies between 250 and 800Hz (adjust by ear) on the music by 2 or 3 dB on a graphic equaliser. You'll probably barely notice the change on the music but may find your voice "sits" better.
 
Bobbsy said:
Two thing:

First off, don't worry about the numbers. LISTEN to your mix (maybe even with your eyes shut) and set the level to wherever it needs to be to sound good. Well, don't ignore the number totally--as was said, pushing them too high can cause clipping--but the final decision should be by sound, not just an arbitrary number. Also, don't assume you have to leave the levels the same throughout the sound. As long as you're subtle you can raise and lower the levels to suit throughout the mix.

Second, a trick I often use when working with pre-recorded music is to apply some slight EQ to the music track to to cut a hole where the voice sits. I haven't heard your voice but as a starting point, try cutting the frequencies between 250 and 800Hz (adjust by ear) on the music by 2 or 3 dB on a graphic equaliser. You'll probably barely notice the change on the music but may find your voice "sits" better.
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Okay thank you! I'll try decreasing the db in that range slightly.

Actually, I just tried this and can you tell me how I do this?
IS it suppose to be the green or blue line I'm decreasing?
When I drag down the blue line, it brings EVERYTHING infront of it down, so basically If I drag at 250 HZ it brings everything from 250Hz to 10000 Hz down.
I mean I could just decrease the 800, and then decrease the 250, but then I'd have to increase everything about 800Hz to it's original state (which is 15 db) isn't there an easier way?
 
When I played with Audacity (which is ages ago) I didn't much like the line mode. Maybe you could try the Graphic EQ mode (just click on the button below the curves display). In that mode, just drag the individual faders between 200 and 1000 Hz down to about the -3 level.

Those numbers are only suggested--try going at bit lower and/or higher and also maybe a bit more or less cut until you like the effect.

By the way, the suggestion to play with the levels until it sounds right is the more important--the EQ just helps a bit when you're using pre recorded music.
 
Bobbsy said:
When I played with Audacity (which is ages ago) I didn't much like the line mode. Maybe you could try the Graphic EQ mode (just click on the button below the curves display). In that mode, just drag the individual faders between 200 and 1000 Hz down to about the -3 level.

Those numbers are only suggested--try going at bit lower and/or higher and also maybe a bit more or less cut until you like the effect.

By the way, the suggestion to play with the levels until it sounds right is the more important--the EQ just helps a bit when you're using pre recorded music.
Click to expand...

Blah it only lets me drag a dot at a time, I don't think i need to edit the EQ as important as the DB for the sound.
You're completely right, I should not just try to focus on #'s, rather I should be paying attention to what sound level the instrumental needs to be, to make my vocals shine more and come out clear rather than "muddy".
 
With EQ (presuming you have access to a real time plugin effect), take some time to play with the EQ until you can predict the results. As you're a complete beginner, I suggest taking each track and listening to them in isolation (Voc & instru respectively) and lowering each frequency band in succession to hear what happens, then raise it back to normal each time, before moving to the next one. Thus, you can train your ears to recognise more or less individual (or at least groups of) frequency bands in audio.

EQ is largely personal preference but it's used creatively so that tracks with similar frequency registers can compliment, rather than compete with each other in the mix. Once you've familiarised yourself with how things sound with each band cut, experiment until you get a sound you like. Then set all the sliders back to zero again and then do this again, but with your own vocal track.

On this note, a tip: in order to boost one, it is sometimes best to not raise it, but lower everything else in proportion. A good equaliser often has a gain control to add more volume if it seems too quiet (or you can simply raise the level of the track to compensate). As a rule of thumb, I think it is best to make the biggest changes by making cuts and use boosts to make the smallest changes, if needed.

Notice what happens when you play with EQ across an entire track (not just individual instruments). It may seem obvious but I'll say it anyway. The beat; the driving force of the music may occupy some of the lower frequency bands (bass) while you have hi-hats and high pitched percussion going on in the upper regions (treble). Now, I know a lot of people who think things sound better with less mid range. In fact, more than often, it's in the mid-bands where most of the really interesting stuff (vocals and guitars etc) is going on. Find out where your voice lies on this frequency scale (a fairly wide range across the middle usually). Knock down some of the extreme ends on the vocals then play the two tracks together and then listen very carefully to see how your voice sits in the mix as you play with the instrumental mid range.

Once you've got yourself listening and recognising, try EQing both tracks together and see what you can do with what your ears have just learned.

This is only a suggestion to get you started. If you're doing things right, you shouldn't need too many extreme adjustments unless something sounds tinny, or too shrill or too bassy.
 
Ah I see, I learned how to use the bars to decrease the DB at each HZ level.

Would you guys recommend me using a small track to practice with EQ? I'm using a 3minute track, and I keep forgetting what the original sounds like (now I just open the original, and keep the edited one open so i can compare). I'm not sure which one sounds "better", because the original track (instrumental) itself sounds great.

When I do edit the vocals AND instrumental though, should I highlight all of it together, and edit the EQ? OR Should I edit them both separately until they sync together well enough :o.
 
Bobbsy said:
Two thing:

First off, don't worry about the numbers. LISTEN to your mix (maybe even with your eyes shut) and set the level to wherever it needs to be to sound good. Well, don't ignore the number totally--as was said, pushing them too high can cause clipping--but the final decision should be by sound, not just an arbitrary number. Also, don't assume you have to leave the levels the same throughout the sound. As long as you're subtle you can raise and lower the levels to suit throughout the mix.

Second, a trick I often use when working with pre-recorded music is to apply some slight EQ to the music track to to cut a hole where the voice sits. I haven't heard your voice but as a starting point, try cutting the frequencies between 250 and 800Hz (adjust by ear) on the music by 2 or 3 dB on a graphic equaliser. You'll probably barely notice the change on the music but may find your voice "sits" better.
Click to expand...

I tried lowering everything through 200~1000 HZ on the vocals and it sounds more "louder" now, which is good because I can just decrease the DB, and hear my voice better :D
 
Do you guys know how I could lower the DB/HZ using EQ WITHOUT making my voice sound a little "robotic"
 
db and hz are two different measurements one is a measure of loudness and the other is measure of frequency, do you want it lower in volume or lower in pitch? The only EQ that doesn't affect phase is a linear EQ but they are also very processor intensive, I'm not sure you know exactly what you're trying to ask but took a shot.
 
Pahtcub said:
db and hz are two different measurements one is a measure of loudness and the other is measure of frequency, do you want it lower in volume or lower in pitch? The only EQ that doesn't affect phase is a linear EQ but they are also very processor intensive, I'm not sure you know exactly what you're trying to ask but took a shot.
Click to expand...

I don't know what the issue is to be honest, my voice is way to low. If I increase my recording volume then it's impossible to sing high notes without them being too high and ruining the sound. I just want my voice to STAND out in the song, and not be drowned out by the instrumental.
When the vocals are alone (no instrumental) they sound amazing.. but when I put them together with the instrumental it turns to trash. I try to use EQ and it makes the vocals stand out a LOT more, but it also ruins the natural tone of the vocals.

I'll use my brother as an example.
He's trying to cover this song Complication by Rookiez is Punk'd English cover Fandub - YouTube
He has the same instrumental as the person who sang that song, but when he overdubs the instrumental, it sounds terrible.
When he sings it WITHOUT the instrumental, the vocals sound just fine and great...

Perhaps I should have him record from farther away from the microphone, and put the recording volume on max. Then Just lower the DB of instrumental by quiet a bit.




P.S I just listened to your song, and it sounds great. What I want is the vocals and instrumental to work together, not against each other T_T. I've tried so many different EQ methods all day, and having my brother record it, but it's not the vocals themselves, its just the mixing process.
 
Pahtcub said:
Try adding a compressor to the vocals after you record them.
Click to expand...

I'll attempt that. I was mostly using the EQ to increase volume, which apparently decreasing the DB made the volume higher... (while using EQ).
 
You guys know those typical youtube videos of songs (that are actually decent)

Is it possible to make a OVER-DUB sound like that? (Like the video I posted before)
WITHOUT touching EQ, compression etc?
On audacity.

My brother & I decided to give up for today, and retry tomorrow. I'm planning to just make the microphone recording volume max, keep him a little away from the microphone, lower the sound of the instrumental and just go from there. I think I'm trying too hard with these effects, hopefully I'm right :p.
 
FYI the vocals in the YouTube video you posted sounds like absolute crap. If you are trying to emulate that then just sing into your computer microphone because that's what it sounds like on that you tube video.
 
Pahtcub said:
FYI the vocals in the YouTube video you posted sounds like absolute crap. If you are trying to emulate that then just sing into your computer microphone because that's what it sounds like on that you tube video.
Click to expand...

Actually I'm trying to make it sound slightly better than that (with at2020 microphone)
The vocals in that video, aren't amazing at all.. but at the same time compared to the vocals I'm using (with instrumentals) they seem godly.
I'm trying to make the vocals stand out, and not sound like screaming / too loud... which means I have to make it work with the instrumental.

It is pretty pathetic I can't even match that video without using Effects... I'm definitely going to try just increase the recording volume and have my brother stand a little farther from microphone.


Before the Vocals were drowned out by music, so I had to use EQ. Now I'm going to just do ^
 
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