Instead of buying DMP's,RNP's, Meeks, and the like....

  • Thread starter Thread starter MISTERQCUE
  • Start date Start date
So all in all, a most excellent signal chain-link would be;
SUPERB PERFORMANCE to GREAT MIC thru PRISTINE PRE's onto RECORDING FORMAT!

If a GREAT PERFORMANCE is captured via a say U87, is it NECESSARY to have a HI-END pre costing thousands rather than having a RNP/DMP/MindPrint/Meek for a TOP recording!!??
 
I gotta go with you Tex. How many records of all types have been cut for how many years on MCI, API, Amek, Neve, Harrison, Neotek, Soundcraft, Sound Workshop, Studio Master and other consoles that never used an outboard preamp? Sure, some might have on some individual instruments or parts but even for the pros, what came with the console is what was used. (it USED to be about the music) A hell of a lot of records have been done that way. If you want to spend $3k for a single mic preamp and you think that is the only way that your music will get heard or that the buying public will give a rats ass what kind of mic preamp your voice/guitar/drum OH went through maybe you need a reality check.

IF you've REALLY got something to say in your music then the message should get across whether you recorded it through $500 preamps or $3k preamps.

Of course, if you are trying to get on the GRP or Windham Hill labels then maybe you need to go with that $3k preamp, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say for 99% of the homerecording type people here who have a real life and not the fantasy life of a rock star then even $500 becomes a major decision.
 
MikeA said:
How many records of all types have been cut for how many years on MCI, API, Amek, Neve, Harrison, Neotek, Soundcraft, Sound Workshop, Studio Master and other consoles that never used an outboard preamp? Sure, some might have on some individual instruments or parts but even for the pros, what came with the console is what was used. (it USED to be about the music) A hell of a lot of records have been done that way. If you want to spend $3k for a single mic preamp and you think that is the only way that your music will get heard or that the buying public will give a rats ass what kind of mic preamp your voice/guitar/drum OH went through maybe you need a reality check.
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Mike, it seems like maybe a logic check is needed here more than a reality check. Any idea what some of those Harrison or Neve boards cost? THAT'S the reason why most of us buy decent outboard preamps And nobody ever said you need to spend $3000 - some of the best outboard pres you can buy are anywhere from $600-$1250 per channel street price. Although, admittedly, you CAN spend more. But a Cranesong Spyder, a Grace 801, a Pendulum Audio, an Avalon 2022, or an API 3124+ are all preamps which any engineer of any level would be thrilled to use and fall within the above price range (per channel). And even a bunch of them is going to be exponentially cheaper than buying a new Harrison or Neve board at $300,000 or so.

Of course it's all about the music. And all about room acoustics. And all about mic positioning. And all about lava lamps. Blah blah blah... Nobody ever said you can't make good stuff on a budget. But if there was NO advantage to having some decent gear, no one would ever bother to buy any. And whatever you are using, there's no reason to delude yourself that using the built-in preamps of even a Neotek Elite is equivalent to using those of a Mackie.

And by the way, if you were to go out and buy, say, a new Neve Libra today, guess what? The preamps ARE outboard! They come in a big-ass seperate rack and you can buy various types and configurations to meet your individual needs.
 
chessrock said:
You're on. I'll be sure to take you somewhere's around Broadway and Montrose or Roscoe (neighborhood we affectionately refer to as "Boystown"). I'm sure the guys there will have plenty of things they'd like to call you. :D
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You mean you need guys to do your talkin for you....:eek:

That's not the way we do it Brooklyn New York! We talk, they watch.....:cool:
 
Careful Chessrock, Alan's out to use you in the ad campaign!
Like those old Life cereal ads "I think Mikey LIKES it!".

Congrats on losing the 26 pounds Alan, I've also lost about 30
pounds over the last 6 months. (down to 195)

I've made quite respectable recordings with a high level acapella
quartet with a (gasp!) Behringer mixer-so anything is possible.
It's really true that 95%+ of your recordings are;

1) Source
2) Engineer
3) Room

in that order... unless you count Autotune :)

Chris


P.S. Meek's have been used on a number of good sounding
release recordings BTW.
 
Ive got you both beat,55lbs since the end of augest. the down side is that I suffered a stroke from using metabolife.

Im really happy using my Yamaha MLA7 for an 8 channel pre, though I have yet seen one in a shootout I do like it better than the other clean preamps under 1k.

I use a VTB1 for color, of course is got a mullard tube. I would maybe just as happy with the peavy, or the GR MP1NV.

PS Alan look me up when you get to KC.
 
Its great to see all those others out there loosing weight, but stay away from the strokes. I myself am on Atkins, and back in the gym. Man I got really weak from not working out for six months, but I am back to benching over 260 lbs.

My goal is to drop another 45 pounds. I need to stay at 225 or I am too thin. Another 4 months and I should almost be there, but I really miss those carbo's, but they are my enemy...I now realize that...
 
littledog said:
Mike, it seems like maybe a logic check is needed here more than a reality check. Any idea what some of those Harrison or Neve boards cost? THAT'S the reason why most of us buy decent outboard preamps And nobody ever said you need to spend $3000 - some of the best outboard pres you can buy are anywhere from $600-$1250 per channel street price. Although, admittedly, you CAN spend more. But a Cranesong Spyder, a Grace 801, a Pendulum Audio, an Avalon 2022, or an API 3124+ are all preamps which any engineer of any level would be thrilled to use and fall within the above price range (per channel). And even a bunch of them is going to be exponentially cheaper than buying a new Harrison or Neve board at $300,000 or so.

Of course it's all about the music. And all about room acoustics. And all about mic positioning. And all about lava lamps. Blah blah blah... Nobody ever said you can't make good stuff on a budget. But if there was NO advantage to having some decent gear, no one would ever bother to buy any. And whatever you are using, there's no reason to delude yourself that using the built-in preamps of even a Neotek Elite is equivalent to using those of a Mackie.

And by the way, if you were to go out and buy, say, a new Neve Libra today, guess what? The preamps ARE outboard! They come in a big-ass seperate rack and you can buy various types and configurations to meet your individual needs.
Click to expand...

I'm jumping in...probably where I shouldn't be...but $300,000 sounds a little on the high side for a lot of those boards mentioned[for someone to pay these days]...especially with the used market. A MCI for 5 grand nowadays...maybe?? There's 24 good preamps and a bad back from moving the console!!
 
The low sugar/low carb EAS health bars have helped me out a lot.

Alan, what's the scoop on your dual pre coming out?
How do you plan to have it sound different than the VTB-1 and the
RNP?

Chris
 
mixmkr said:
I'm jumping in...probably where I shouldn't be...but $300,000 sounds a little on the high side for a lot of those boards mentioned...
Click to expand...

Price a new Harrison or Neve if you don't believe me. I didn't say ALL the brands mentioned were that price.
 
MISTERQCUE said:
If a GREAT PERFORMANCE is captured via a say U87, is it NECESSARY to have a HI-END pre costing thousands rather than having a RNP/DMP/MindPrint/Meek for a TOP recording!!??
Click to expand...

In my opinion, no. But this is a matter of religion.
 
chessparov said:
The low sugar/low carb EAS health bars have helped me out a lot.

Alan, what's the scoop on your dual pre coming out?
How do you plan to have it sound different than the VTB-1 and the
RNP?

Chris
Click to expand...

A very good question, and segway I might add!! ;)

With the take over of Joemeek, there has been some delays. If you recall, we were introducing the Studio Projects 828, the 8 channel Burr Brown mic amp and mixer. We have elected to make that a new Joemeek unit.

The VTB-2 is very different than the VTB-1. Again, the VTB-1 was designed to be a very high featured low cost product. The VTB-2 is designed to be a Class A high end mic amp with frequency extended to 250KhZ...in other word, DC to Light. The Tube section is a full 300V tube with a twist that I cant revel.

As for features, it will add meters, and have all the digital output formats like AES/EBU, SPDIF, Optical, and ADAT. It will also have a Word Clock, inserts, XLR's and many more features I again cant comment on, but it will be different, and it will be a higher price. :D
 
I saw the vtb-2 on the eqipment list for the shootout site that dot is running, is that a prototype , or a typo.
 
Thanks for the info Alan.
Is the VTB-2 going to be at NAMM this January?

Chris
 
shouldn't we just SAVE for ONE great pre such as Fairchild's, Neve's,Pultec's,Telefunkens,vintage Ampex's and such?
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I'm really getting in late on this thread, but to answer Q's original question, I would tend to agree. However, saving up for something that is that expensive would take quite a while for some here including myself.

If the music is there and the song says something and grabs the majority, a halfway decent pre should suffice until the record man offers a contract. I understand that a lot of people want their recordings to sound as pristine as possible...and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm included in that bunch as well. To be able to produce something at home that sounds like it was recorded at The Plant would be a dream unimagined for me. I think a lot more than a $2K pre is going to be needed to get that on tape.

One of these days soon, after I get my TASCAM CD-RW700 at the end of January, I'm going to be looking at some mid-priced pre's in the $750-$1K range. I will keep using the pre's in my M-1516 until then. I'm not gonna spend $150 here and then upgrade to $300 there, and then finally get something worth running a mic through. That's just throwing away good money after bad.

My .02 cents worth FWIW.:cool:
 
Whenever I save up for something like 1k, other shit tends to get my money instead.Like bills, emergancys, and crap like that.:(
 
Littledog

I don't disagree with what you say. (Haven't yet, we seem to be on the same wavelength in most of these discussions...) I wasn't speaking of going out & buying a new Neve, Harrison, etc. I was speaking specifically of buying a used one. That's what I find so amazing. The fact that you can go out buy a console that when new DID cost $100,000 - $300,000 and now sell for $5,000 to $15,000. OK, not a Neve or SSL but there is NOTHING wrong with getting one of those others. Boards of that caliber were the mainstays of thousands of studios for years and years. If all you need is a couple of preamps then yeah, hauling an 11' long console in may be overkill but I just think that there might be a better way of spending the same amount of money that you would spend if you went out and bought 3 or 4 $3,000 preamps.
You do of course, have to consider the condition of the board too. A lot of those consoles have been rode hard and are probably getting long in the tooth. Not that they can't be reconditioned but you would just have to plan for that if you went that route.
Personally, I'm looking to get a couple of those $650-$1250 preamps you mentioned but primarily because I am going to be doing stuff where portability is a necessity.
I often wondered though why more consoles didn't have outboard preamps. Just seems logical to me.
 
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