inserts for live recording

S

Special K

New member
I have heard a lot of places of people using the channels inserts on a mixer to route to a multi-track recording medium such as an ADAT... My understanding is that you need a send AND a return on the insert for it to operate...i.e. a stereo cable (tip/sleeve) routed as a mono signal through the effect or recorder, and back to the mixer.

Is it possible to send an insert on a mono line, and not return?, or does the circuit have to be complete?

If it does need to be complete, could someone please suggest a way of recording a live gig onto a multi-track device such as ADAT, so the tracks can be frigged with post-gig?

And is the only way of using an insert on a channel to buy
a stereo -> split mono cable? Therefore meaning I would have to buy 16 of these leads to do my recording?!!!!

Cheers,

K
 
In most cases Tip is send, ring is return and sleeve is ground. So if you bridge (shortening) between tip and sleve your signal will go straight from ins out to ins in....but still you can pick the ins feed and run it to another source...
 
The way this is mostly done is using special cables, with a TRS plug on one side and mono plug on the other side. The tip and ring are shorted, so that you directly connect the insert output to it's input again, and just take it out to your adats in the meantime...

If you want to use it that way, yup, you need those cables.

You don't need stereo-mono split cables, unless you want to playback your stuff too...

If you're planning to do that alot, you might want to buy a multi, less cables to play around with, and maybe solder your own plugs on it. Get yourself a soldering iron. You'll need it sooner or later anyhow...
 
Piece of cake. You can do it in either of these two ways. First you can take any mono 1/4" cable and plug it into the insert to the first "click". this won't break the normall connection and will tap off signal right after the mic pre but before the EQ/Fader section of the channel strip. The downside of this is, it's a shakey connection as you have to keep the connector only partially seated.
The better way is to replace the 1/4" mono connector on the patch cable to a stereo type with the tip and ring shorted together and of course, soldered to the center conductor of the mono cable. Witht this set up you can seat the connector completely in the insert for better reliability and again, it won't break the internal insert connection and just taps off post preamp/pre EQ-Fader signal for a multi track.
 
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I'm so glad this question came up. I've been looking for a new mixer for my drum kit (6 mics) and have wanted to do the same with an 8 track with channel inserts. I have use the channel inserts on another board (Yamaha) with the partial insert trick and it works, but as Track Rat stated, it's not very reliable (such a loose connection).

Track Rat, could you go into a bit more detail about replacing the mono connector with the stereo type? I've made very few of my own cables and always get nervous when I try. A diagram or something would be just awesome. Thanks :D
 
I do the same on my behringer mixer but i plug the whole cable in.(in the insert) I havent noticed any differance between partial in or all the way in.
 
You must have "insert" cables then. Otherwise, the mixer sends the signal, but doesn't get it back, and the faders produce no sound.

The cables aren't that hard to make. I just used ready-made TRS cables, cut off one end and soldered a 1/4" mono connector on it with the tip & ring wires soldered together on the mono post. It's no biggie - if you screw up, you can just cut the end off and try it again :)

I ended up not needing the cables though because I'm using the mixer differently now. Oh well, at least I have the burn scars on my fingers to show for it :D (just kidding).
 
Seanmorse79 said:
I've never had any luck with the "partial insert" trick. Is this a Mackie-only feature?
Click to expand...
I'd imagine that not all manufacturers use the same pin out but I now this works with Mackies and Peavey as well.
 
Thanks Seanmorse, I'll have to give it a try, unless detuned is correct and it doesn't effect a Behringer. The mixer I was going to purchase for my 6 mic drum setup is a Behringer MX2004A. Will the channel inserts work to multitrack my individual mics to a Delta 1010 without making these custom cables?
 
You can use it to send the preamp'ed signal to your Delta, it's just that you won't have use of the mixer channels or faders as you normally would. You'll probably have to adjust your volume levels using the trim pots at the top.
 
Now I get it, duh :o
I wasn't considering that on a one way signal it would not get reinserted to the tracks to use the drum mixer for adjustments. Thanks again Seanmorse, this is very helpful :D
 
Cheers guys....I think I will make a trip to the local and buys some leads and get dirty...

BTW: Is this the standard way for recording onto multi-track mediums in a live situation?? Or, is there another simple way?

K
 
It's probably the easiest way to do it. But your inserts are normally pre fader so you have to keep your levels under control by using gain trim.....so keep a close look at your recorder..
 
The way to do it is using a splitter and a second board for recording only, in a different (isolated) room.

But other than that, this is the easiest way. Make sure your gain levels are set in a good way, and don't change 'em during a song unless they are clipping, and your set.
You cannot use the inserts to hook up a compressor or gate though. If you want to use cops and gates, you might want to make even more complicated cables... :D One cable, four jacks. That should do it. There's gotta be a better way. Probably the best way is to make a mono-stereo split cable, and go from the output of the recorder to the compressor... From there back to the insert...
 
I posted this in another thread, but maybe it wasn't appropriate. The question was spawned from this thread, so I'm going to insert it.

OK, I have a 6 mic setup to record my drums. Right now I can tear down our main board and input directly, then to my Delta 1010. Problem is I don't want to mess with the main board just to lay down my drum tracks. So I was looking at the Behringer MX2004A mixer thinking I could use the channel inserts to output the individual mic signals to the Delta. But from comments above I've realized I will loose mixing capabilities on the Behringer since there would be no return signal. Is this a problem? Would I be better off getting 3 Audio Buddy preamps or something similar. Or is there a better mixer in the same price range as the Behringer (around $200) to suit my pre mixing and preamp needs? Thanks ahead :)
 
I'd recommend going the mixer route for sure. Keep in mind, you probably won't need use of the faders if the mixer is acting strictly as pre's for the Delta - you just need to adjust the trims and you're good (provided they're pre-fader inserts). If you're hoping to do custom monitor mixes, outboard mixing, zero latency monitoring, etc... then you will.

Behringer pre's are considered bottom-of-the-barrel around here, but that's for you to decide for yourself. I would definitely do a thorough demo if you're considering that route.

You may want to look at used stuff. I picked up an old Yamaha 12 channel board with inserts for $125.
 
detuned6 said:
I do the same on my behringer mixer but i plug the whole cable in.(in the insert) I havent noticed any differance between partial in or all the way in.
Click to expand...

Hey, I do the exact same with my Spirit Mixer and I can't tell a difference either.

Can I spoil my equipment doing it that way?
 
You're awesome Seanmorse. Thanks so much for the help, this one's been bothering me for a few days now. I hear what your saying about the Behringer pre's. I'm trying not to let budget get in the way of quality. And I love eBay..... :D
 
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