Input Upgrade

[JohnyC]

Hi folks, for the past 6 months or so I've been using a sm58 and the mic pre on my Omni studio to record vocals. I've saved up about $800 and I feel that I can comfortably upgrade my input setup. The only problem is that im not sure if I should split the dough between a preamp and mic, or just a mic. I have a feeling that most of you are going to say just get the mic for now, but wont I be "bottle necked" somewhat my the Omni preamps ?
I havnt researched into the preamp world at all yet and here are selections so far:

1. Studio Projects C1 ($230) 570 or so left over for a preamp
2. Rode NTK (bout 400) 400 left over for preamp
3. Use it all on a neumann TLM-103
4. Use it all on a preamp ??

Given that i wont be upgrading for awhile what would be the highest quality route ? Any better suggestions ? Also I'm hoping to get a mic that isn't strictly for vocals but can also be used to mic guitar, and other sounds that I create with objects. Thanks for any help

 

[charger]

On the contrary, I think most people would recommend that you spend the money on the mic and not the preamp.
See the following thread for the reasons why.

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48339

 

[DigitMus]

Go ahead and get the C-1, it'll give you a lot of mic for the money - and use the leftover $$ for a Grace Design 101 pre-amp ($579 at Sweetwater, you can probably do a little better somewhere). It's not the be-all and end-all of input chains, but both pieces will give you many years of use, even after you've upgraded everthing else. All in all, a good start.

Scott

 

[JohnyC]

thanks for the linkage charger, I'll check out the Grace Design 101 for sure scott

 

[Mark H.]

There are lots of good ways to divide up your budget, depending on what would best serve your needs.

For instance, the Marshall V67M is available from Mars Music for less than $110 delivered. It's an incredibly good single-pattern vocal mic, but comes with only a stand adaptor for that price.

With the difference, you can get a great, neutral preamp like the single channel Grace Design 101 (Soundpure is offering it on Ebay for $549 plus $18 shipping, for instance), or -- to go for a full vocal processor with distinctive, adjustable coloration -- you could get the single-channel JoeMeek VC1Qcs for about $10 more from the same place. And, just to make your choices a little more complicated and enticing, they have justed started offering the 2-channel version of the JoeMeek, the new TwinQ as it's called, for about $750 plus shipping. All of these are within striking distance of your $800 with the V67M.

You could also move up to the outstanding, multi-pattern Studio Projects C-3 microphone at $349 with shock mount and aluminum flight case (different vendor, but also on Ebay right now, and free shipping), and attain another whole level of openness and quality in your mic. It's a big step up from the C-1.

At that price point, you'd have enough left over to buy the well-regarded M-Audio DMP3 2-channel mic preamp for about $250 AND the oustanding FMR RNC ("Really Nice Compressor"), which sells for $175 delivered, also on Ebay right now.

There's yet more to consider, though. (You really do have a rich abundance of choices that simply weren't available a few years ago at this price-point.) Sometime in the next few weeks, Studio Projects is planning to introduce its "B" line of microphones. The one you might consider (as a possible alternative to the C-3) will be their new tubed mic, complete with power supply, shock mount, connecting cable and flight case, for about $350.

If that isn't tempting enough, the Rode NTK tube mic package is available for about $450 on line, leaving enough for the DMP3 or a JoeMeek VC6Q with enough left over to buy the Marshall V67M as well.

And, with the "B" series coming shortly, you can already buy Studio Projects' incredible top-of-the-line T-3 tube microphone package for $599 on eBay right now, leaving you about $50 short of the DMP3, but close!

The point is, you've got enough in your budget to move up into some seriously great sounds, and no matter how you divide it up, you're probably going to be very happy with what you get.

If I had to choose right this moment, I'd probably go for either the new JoeMeek TwinQ (looking forward to needing/wanting two channels of vocal processing in the future) and saving a little more to buy the inexpensive but very good V67M from Mars Music in the short-run, or I would go with the C-3 ($349), DMP3 ($250), and FMR RNC ($175) and use the change to buy a mic stand or a decent mic cable.

Note that the prices and vendors I cite on Ebay are all authorized dealers with good reputations selling brand new equipment with warranties.

Other people will have different suggestions, and you should consider their recommendations carefully as well.

I'll be interested in finding out what you decide to get and how you like it.

Best wishes,

Mark H.

 

[JohnyC]

wow Mark thats an awesome post, thanks a lot I really appreciate you giving me further selections to choose from. THis is all so hard :|
I think I'm going to write these different combos out on paper and draw from a hat.. haha

 

[JohnyC]

Does anyone have vocal samples comparing the C1 and C3, I didn't really consider it, but the C3 is only about $130 more. Would this upgrade be benificial for a person doing solo work with the C3 ?

 

[ScienceOne]

Geez man!

If you've been satisfied with just a 58, then a Marshall condenser mic will blow you away, and so will the price. Their mics have a spectacular sound that's comprable to Neumann's costing hundreds more. And nothing beats an ART Tube MP for a pre-amp. It's the most highly sold preamp out there, and with VERY VERY good reason. Or you could get the Presonus Blue Tube, but its only advantage over the Tube MP is that it has two channels.

If you go this route you will save hundreds and have money left to blow on other equipment, I suggest a BBE sonic maximizer to everyone, I have one and it is the ultimate tool for clearing up your sound. I'll explain it if you've never heard of them.

 

[JohnyC]

BBE sonic maximizer hmmm never heard of it.. I'll research it further. Can it do something that software cannot ?
thanks for tha reply ScienceOne

 

[chessrock]

I say get the Marshall v93 and an M-audio DMP3. With the money you have left over, get yourself some good accoustic treatment or upgrade something else in your signal chain.

 

[JohnyC]

actually thats a good idea chessrock, cause I still have to build a vocal booth as well..lol
So many things to do so little time
BTW.. where'd you get your v93 from ? Mars ?

 

[chessrock]

Yea. It pairs nicely with what is essentially the dmp3's younger sibling, the dmp2. They're both very clean, accurate, and neutral in sound. My recordings and mixes just keep sounding better and better, and I think it's because I've chosen to go the route of spending my money "backwards."

It's probably not my theory, so I apologize in advance to anyone I might be unintentially plagerizing. But my "reverse-signal chain theory" is that the most important place to spend your money is on the medium you are recording it on to. Then be sure you have the best a/d conversion that is practical. Then comes the preamp . . . with the microphone coming in last. Just work your way backwards in the signal chain.

The theory is based around the idea that microphones are the one part of the chain that can give you the best bang for your buck. It's such a fun time to shop for mics right now, to think of the sound you can get these days for very little money. It's ludicrous.

Your situation right now is a lot like a football team with relatively no major holes to fill. You have the first pick in the draft through a trade. The draft is solid and deep with talent. But everyone wants to trade up for your first pick.

You have two options: Take a chance on the star of the draft, pay a lot of money for him and risk the possiblility that he may or may not pan out. Or you can trade down and turn that first pick in to 2 late first-rounders. With the talent available, it's quite possible to select 2 future all-pros. It's certainly not out of the question. And even if you don't, your odds are much better that at least one of the two will be starting material, and won't be a wasted pick. It's very unlikely that both will bust. If so, then you need a new scouting department anyway!

 

[JohnyC]

So would buying a dmp3 be a step up from the dmp2's on my omni studio ? cause I don't need extra inputs..but I would like better quality. The mic for sure is going to be upgraded..But I'm still stuck on the pres..any omni users out there that have been in a similar situation ? what did you end up doing ?
I read that big pre discussion, started by Chessrock, and those $2000 mic pres are something that I would only dream about..

 

[Mark H.]

JohnyC,

Alan Hyatt, owner of PMI Audio (Studio Projects mics and importer for JoeMeek, Trident and some other great products) offers a free CD for the asking that really shows the difference between the C-1, the C-3, and the T-3 mics on about five different preamps, most of them very high-end. It's a tremendous education to listen to it on a good stereo where you can hear the differences.

What makes it so useful (to me) as an educational tool, is that you can hear how the different combinations of mic and preamp on the male vocal sounded in the mix, THEN listen to the "dry" vocal as captured without any processing whatsoever (except for a touch of compression, if I recall correctly).

To my ears, on my system, all three SP mics sounded very good, but the C-3 was a big step up from the C-1, had a great deal more "air" and sense of spaciousness to it, and therefore might be useful for more of the acoustic purposes that you mentioned in your initial posting, as well has being a superior vocal mic.

If you have time, drop Alan an email (alan@pmiaudio.com should reach him, I think) with your name and mailing address, and request that he send you the Studio Sessions CD for evaluation.

I think you'll recognize at once why the C-3 is such a great deal at its price-point.

Best wishes,

Mark H.

 

[Randy Yell]

Actually I think the new Studio Projects tube mic (the TB-1?)is going to have a street price of $299!Damn it,I was going to try a B-1 for $79 but then I got to thinking about the B-3,multipattern for $149,very cool.But now,I am really thinking about the TB-1,something tells me this is going to be a sweet mic for $299.I'm already ass deep in debt but I guess another three bills won't kill me.If Alan had gotten his mics out even last week I would have bought the B-3 but now I think I gotta get the tube one.I think delaying it was a twisted marketing ploy designed to make weak willed souls like me spend $300!

If I was going to spend $800 on my recording chain I like the idea of the DMP3 and a RNC.Then I would spend the four bills either on one decent mic or on two mics like maybe a TB-1 and a V67.

 

[JohnyC]

Thanks for the info Mark I'll give alan an email. Now I wonder if theres a new CD comparing the B1 and TB1 ? I'd like to see how the TB1 and the C3 match up..

 

[JohnyC]

Ok where is the cheapest place to get a C1 ? everywhere I look they are 230 but on one forum alan said they were $175.00 ??
whats the deal
I think I may go with the NTK..anyone know where to find the best deal for this mic ? Cheapest I've found is 409.00

 

[chessrock]

I still say you should trade down in the draft.

For the price of one NTK ($500), you could have:

* 1 Marshall v93 ($150)
* 1 Marshall v67 ($100)
* 1 Oktava mc012 ($150)

And $100 left over for an sm57 or whatever else you can think of.

 

[JohnyC]

hmm yahhh...I wish I could try all these mics out, unfortunately the local dealer mainly has AKG and shure mics in stock :|

 

[Retro]

From what I've read about the omnistudio, the preamps were rated pretty good. I would spend the money on a good vocal mic, a stereo pair to mic acoustics (one mic at the soundhole/fretboard & one behind the players ear) and a RNC compressor. This will give you more bang for your buck, I think. I wouldn't replace your preamps until you get to the point where you can hear that they are a limitation in your signal chain and that THEY are preventing you from getting the sound you want. By that time you will also have a better idea of what you're looking for in a preamp. BTW - Both the M Audio DMP3 and the Omni I/O use DMP2 technology, so I'm not sure a step up to a DMP3 is really that big of a step up since you may already have basically the same preamps.