Input Level Issue

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robbieaz62

New member
I've been having trouble getting good input level from my Behringer Ultragain pre into my Yamaha AW1600 DAW. Using both a condenser and a dynamic mic I have to crank the Behringer almost all the way up and still use a good bit of gain on the 1600 channel to get close to a -6 inut level. Would switching the Ultragain to +4dbu be the proper way to solve this problem or would it just add more noise? The stated nominal input spec for the 1600 channels goes from -46dbu to +4, with a max of +18. I'm still a little hazy on the -10/+4 thing and whether the 1600 is configured as 'consumer' or 'pro' gear.
 
Try the +4...but you don't really have to hit -6 dBFS. Even -18dBFS will be OK (and less noise from your front end).
 
I didn't know I could go that low without incurring significant signal to noise penalties. I had been just using the pres on the 1600 until I got this straightened out. I'll try switching to +4 and running at a lower input level and see what happens.
 
Well...the S/N comes into play before you convert to digital...but since you are already cranking your pre to get a hot signal, you may be introducing noise into the signal. Switching to +4 at the outputs is NOT the same as turning up the gain on the pre....it's more about maintaining a proper level balance between two devices so that both are operating with the same set of level "rules".

So...if you have X amount of S/N at your analog front end....it will not change if you record digitally at -18dBFS or -6dBFS.
The S/N ratio with stay the same. Everything happens at the front end...the digital level is less critical as long as you are not hitting "0" or recording WAY low.

Once you have the signal in the DAW...rasing the level for your mix will not ADD more noise...it's just a math conversion. It will proportionally raise the S/N that you already had in the analog front end (without getting into a discussion about the converter's analog filters...etc).
 
But the output of the Behringer preamp is still analog. I'm sending that into another analog input, the AW1600 channel input, that has it's own input preamp. So I'm dealing with 2 separate amplifiers that must both be contributing noise. I would prefer not to have to crank both of them up. Will switching to +4 improve the level balance and possibly result in a hotter but quieter signal going into the mixer channel?
 
Take the Line out of the Berry preamp and go into the Line in of the AW1600 (not the Mic/preamp in)...set the Berry to +4 if the AW1600 can take +4.
 
Not sure why you need to use the Behri unit anyway... the AW1600 does have its own preamps. Go direct - should be plenty of gain. I use an AW4416 and have never had a gain issue...
 
I don't NEED to use it. I get perfectly good levels into the 1600 without it. But since I have it I figured I might as well use it since it's got to be at least a little better than the pres on the 1600.
 
Mmmmmm...don't know about that. I've never tried either, but I wouldn't dismiss Yamaha audio gear in favor of Berry stuff...at least not without a straightforward comparison.
 
robbieaz62 said:
I didn't know I could go that low without incurring significant signal to noise penalties. I had been just using the pres on the 1600 until I got this straightened out. I'll try switching to +4 and running at a lower input level and see what happens.
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You're probably getting a much better SNR at "more normal" levels (as stated, -6dBFS is around 3x the voltage the circuits were designed for - Especially with Berry's, which have little to no usable headroom).

I don't NEED to use it. I get perfectly good levels into the 1600 without it. But since I have it I figured I might as well use it since it's got to be at least a little better than the pres on the 1600.
Click to expand...
"Having" it - and actually "using" it can be two different things. Not a big fan of the 1600's pres, but I'd bet they might be considerably better than the Berry, depending on the model.

In any case, try both and use the better preamp. Don't simply use it to use it...

And more on "reasonable" gain staging: Proper Audio Recording Levels | Rants, Articles | MASSIVE Mastering
 
I liked your article on proper audio recording levels and am going to go that route, tracking at much lower levels than I had been. As for the preamp, which I originally bought to use with my old non-phantom power supplying Tascam 488, I just may try to trade it for something that might make more of a difference. Not using it would certainly simplify my setup ...
 
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