Input Audio Signal is weak

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seacow

New member
I've got an old audio card in my desktop - (Echo Digital Audio MIA). I'm recording electric guitar so I tried running the 1/4" plug directly into the MIA input jack. With this I could not get a strong enough signal into my Cakewalk recording software. So I used a Tube Pac preamp/compressor (old also) to boost the signal... This works - barely. I need to crank the preamp output all the way to get a still weak signal level for recording. Finally I added a Boss ME-30 pedal in the chain and with careful manipulations I can get the signal strength I need. I also tried running the pedal directly into the sound card - still too weak. I have several questions:


Is this typical of recording interfaces? Does one always have to work this hard to get a signal which is hot enough?
Barring some solution which ameliorates the problem using my current gear, what would be your recommendation for new gear?
 
seacow said:
I've got an old audio card in my desktop - (Echo Digital Audio MIA). I'm recording electric guitar so I tried running the 1/4" plug directly into the MIA input jack. With this I could not get a strong enough signal into my Cakewalk recording software. So I used a Tube Pac preamp/compressor (old also) to boost the signal... This works - barely. I need to crank the preamp output all the way to get a still weak signal level for recording. Finally I added a Boss ME-30 pedal in the chain and with careful manipulations I can get the signal strength I need. I also tried running the pedal directly into the sound card - still too weak. I have several questions:


Is this typical of recording interfaces? Does one always have to work this hard to get a signal which is hot enough?
Barring some solution which ameliorates the problem using my current gear, what would be your recommendation for new gear?
Click to expand...

It is typical of soundcards that were designed to exchange levels at the "pro" figure of +4dBu or about a volt. Your guitar typically gives about a tenth of that or less, -20dBu.

The Echo card is an excellent device but if you want to keep using it you will need to buy something to up the levels from the guitar. The Boss unit is again pretty good but is a "unity gain" device and thus gives you no advantage.

You basically have two choices. Buy a completely new setup consisting of a modern audio interface which will have the high impedance input and gain you need or, and this would be my solution, a small mixer.

The mixer will sit between the Boss output and the Echo card's input and easily make up the 20dB or so of gain that you need. But! Don't let all this gain go to your head! Keep levels down to a sane -20dBFS or so with peaks to maybe -10dBFS.

If you REALLY wanted to push the boat out you could buy the same mixer I have, the Allen and Heath ZED 10. Apart from being a cut above the Behringers of this world it has two high Z (10 meg!) inputs to boot! This would mean you would not need the Boss.

Dave.
 
As was said, your card is expecting line level. Your guitar doesn't put out anything near that.

Also, connecting passive pickups to a line input without high enough impedance will load down the pickup and make it quieter and muddier sounding.

The boss pedal will buffer it, so the impedance mismatch will be taken care of, but you still need a good bit of gain.

I'm not familiar with that preamp, but if you are plugging into a line input instead of the mic input, you aren't getting all the gain the preamp.offers.

Unfortuneatly, you can't assume your signal is compatability with an input just because it has the same connector.

Since you have the preamp, I would suggest getting a direct box. If your pickups are passive, get an active direct box.
 
Yep, what they said....

In the old day's you couldn't just plug in your turntable into any line level RCA input of your tuner/amp, you had to plug it into your RCA jack pair labeled "turntable" as this has the pre-amplification needed to properly boost the signal...otherwise, you'd barely hear any audio from the record, if at all.

My audio interface is also older...I use the now extinct Aardvark Q10's which have special dedicated direct guitar or bass inputs/circuitry to pre-amplify as well as impedance match that kind of signal. It has a push button on inputs 7 & 8, enabling the direct guitar input circuitry, depressing provides line level just like any other inputs on the audio card. Unless I press that button, I won't get a hot enough signal for my guitar. And even when I boost up my Q10's regular pre's enough (and I can), it's not nearly as sweet sounding of a tone that I can get with the specially designed guitar circuitry..

In my own sound card case, I don't need a direct box, or pre-amplify my guitar/bass signals if going direct, and using soft amp sims. But when I use my hardware amp sims, I then use the amp sims L/R line outs into a L/R audio line in of my sound card...and simply not use my direct guitar input function, as it's not needed...being that the outputs to inputs ARE all line level.
 
Sorry! I did not investigate the Art pre amp!

Something wrong there if it does not give the gain needed for electric guitar. The manual clearly shows a guitar going into a high Z instrument input and a feed out to a mixer.

I suggest a good study of the pre amp's handbook.

Dave.
 
"In the old day's you couldn't just plug in your turntable into any line level RCA input of your tuner/amp, you had to plug it into your RCA jack pair labeled "turntable" as this has the pre-amplification needed to properly boost the signal...otherwise, you'd barely hear any audio from the record, if at all."

But that's the trouble Steve. The noobs are not just new to Home Recording, they are new to life!
They did not grow up trying to put an electric guitar thru an old radio set! "Hi fi" came in a cardboard box and the most technical thing you had to do was wire up the speakers!

I do not criticize them for it. Old fart I might be but they simply did not have the opportunities to learn that I (and you I presume) had. My old Ford Sierra estate was the last car engine I understood and even that had a primitive electronic engine mngmt system (not PI tho and no silly precious metal converter!).

This is why I constantly tell noobs to get a test meter and a solder iron.

Dave.
 
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