In Your Face Guitar soundings

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Blor007

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What is the best for an in your face sound?

Doubling the guitar track with delay?
Or Recording it 2 times (or more) and panning it left-right?



What do you think is the best to get an in your face sound?
 
Doubling the track with delay only causes phase problems. Play the part twice, if you want an in-your-face sound, turn up the midrange.
 
Blor, please do not double post in different forums. It is a bit of a no-no here.
 
Doubling can causes phasing if you dont pan enough in my experience. Pan to around 60 each way and you will be fine. If not record the part twice as this is the best way, but remember you will need to be very tight in your playing skills.
I wouldnt say that doubling produces an in your face sound, but more of a spacial width. For an in our face guitar sound, close mic and dont use reverb and crank the fader and maybe get rid of some lo and hi end if mixing with other instruments. Play about with the hi mids a LITTLE to bring it out a bit more in the mix if possible. If needed use some compression with attack of around 20ms and release of around 20ms. Only compress say 4-6 db of the wave with a ratio of 2 or there abouts. Or you could lightley compress alot of the wave with a higher attack time and ratio of 1.2 abouts.
 
Just for shits and giggles, try this:

Put a mic right on the cone of the speaker and then room mic at least two feet back from the speaker. Make sure the room mic fattens the sound but doesn't cause any weird phase problems (put headphones on and walk around the room while the guitar is being played until you've found the right spot). Also make sure there are PLENTY of mids in the tone. Take the gain down slightly from where you would normally have it as well.

Pan those tracks 100% to one side and track the part again with a different amp and pan that 100% to the other side. You also might want to experiment with bringing the rooms to like 80% and keeping the close mics at 100% hard-panned. I think you'll like it. I don't know what kind of sound you're going for, but I've done a couple metal/punk rock records now and the guitars sounded mean as hell.
 
I think the amp my friend Cloneboy is speaking of is the "Pignose". That is of course, unless he feels that a Pignose is Utter Crap! ;)



//AdrianFly
 
as far as i'm concerned an "in your face" tone is ONE guitar, ONE amp, ONE speaker, and ONE mic, on ONE track, NO EFFECTS..... and (though not always practicle) panned either hard left or right. This may shock most, but it will sound like an actual guitar, and not a horribly over produced plug-in frenzy!

Or, if you are so inclined, plug your guitar directly into your desk, crank the gain and drop the fader. i'm pretty sure this is a john lennon/sir george martin thing, pretty direct and at ya sound.

Then again everyones definition of "in yer face" will be somewhat different
 
Using more than one mic and blending helps a lot, but seeing how in your face guitars were recorded in a studio session I got to sit in on revealed this: turn the freaking amps UP! This is often not possible for home recording, but it really does wonders. This is really the only way to get the amp to break up enough.

When you record a vocal, you're dealing with air moving. When you record drums, you're dealing with air moving. When you record an acoustic guitar, you're dealing with air moving. When you record an electric guitar cabinet, it takes a lot more volume to get the speakers really moving and pushing air out.

If you have neighbors, just go around and explain the situation to them. Tell them you'll be done in an hour or so, and do it in the middle of the day during the week when everyone is at work.
 
Yeah, but too much volume and the speakers will be above their sweet spot volume and will sound nasty. Also you could have the volume too loud so as the mic capsule is being damaged or is moving to much. Think if you are using a SM58. That was designed for vocals! You want to find the optimal volume that the amp and speaker combo sound best at. Hard to tell by listening as louder usualy sounds better even if the quality isnt as good.
 
SM58's and 57's can handle SPLs far above what your average cranked amp will put out, so unless you're using something fancy (AKG C414's and Royer 121's are amazing on guitars, but can't take the same SPLs as a 57) you should be fine.

And I'm going to agree with Clone Boy and Elektrikaz: be sure you're using a great amp (typically the smaller the better for recording) and be sure it is loud as hell. Keep the speakers' "sweet spot" in mind and make sure they're not just farting and buzzing under the pressure. That being said, great speakers get great speaker breakup and will only sound better at high volumes.
 
Could you or anyone post a sample of a very in your face guitar sound (Stereo sample)and maybe you could tell what amp/what guitar/wich mic(s) wich placement you used...

I have a sample but i want to make it sound more in your face as if it's exploding after the breaks ... any tips for this recording?

http://users.pandora.be/blor007/Idem%20-Gravity(zonder%20zang).mp3

*edit* I used: Gibson Les Paul Studio on an VS100 amp with an 1960 cabinet.
Not too much gain, i boosted the mid and cut some bass and treble.
No Effects/No Compression...
SM57 , i tried in front of the amp but didn't get the sound that i wanted so i moved it back a little and pointed it at the corner instead of the middle...

Any tips would be highly appreciated...

Ps: With In your face sound i mean this : sec 5-10

Ps: i'm going to buy a mesa-boogie triple rectifier , would that improve the sound greatly ?
 
Last edited:
Blor007 said:
Ps: i'm going to buy a mesa-boogie triple rectifier , would that improve the sound greatly ?
Click to expand...

At least that is tube, but to my ears Triple Rectifiers sound generic and crappy.

If you want true guitar tone, look at a 70's Marshall, or a Hiwatt, or even a Fender Twin. Now those amps have TONE FOR DAYS.

Heh... can you tell I'm a guitarist? :)
 
Triple Recs are good for what they do. I mean they are what they are whether or not you like what that is.

I can't think of much out there that can give you a Triple Rec sound ... short of a Triple Rec, that is.
 
riantide said:
(put headphones on and walk around the room while the guitar is being played until you've found the right spot).
Click to expand...

I've always wondered about this...when doing mic placements, I always move the mic a bit, record, then play that back.

Do you use special headphones that block more room sounds? I've never tried it, assuming I'd hear the room sound over what I'm hearing from the headphones.

tv
 
Blor007 said:
Could you or anyone post a sample of a very in your face guitar sound (Stereo sample)and maybe you could tell what amp/what guitar/wich mic(s) wich placement you used...

I have a sample but i want to make it sound more in your face as if it's exploding after the breaks ... any tips for this recording?

http://users.pandora.be/blor007/Idem%20-Gravity(zonder%20zang).mp3

*edit* I used: Gibson Les Paul Studio on an VS100 amp with an 1960 cabinet.
Not too much gain, i boosted the mid and cut some bass and treble.
No Effects/No Compression...
SM57 , i tried in front of the amp but didn't get the sound that i wanted so i moved it back a little and pointed it at the corner instead of the middle...

Any tips would be highly appreciated...

Ps: With In your face sound i mean this : sec 5-10

Ps: i'm going to buy a mesa-boogie triple rectifier , would that improve the sound greatly ?
Click to expand...
A boogie will not give you the sound on the greenday song. That sounds more like a Marshall.
 
If you've got the money for a triple rec. don't rush out and get one. First see if you can audition an '80s 100watt Marshall JCM800 or, if you can find one, and Orange head. Those two are a little more timeless sounding takes on the high gain thing, in my opinion. The Mesa/Boogies, while impressive, just sound so modern. Maybe this is just my version of the old, "Analong is better than digital..." thing.
 
1) record a bitchin guitar in a bitchin guitar amp. do it twice, or more, with different tones...clean, distorted, dirty, everything. pan them accordingly about 80% left and 80% right...where you put what is up to you.

2) mic it with whatever accurately represents the tone you want

3) track is again with a direct guitar and use an amp simulator like native instruments guitar rig, or ik multimedia amplitube.

4) get rid of everything below 150hz, and everything above 5.5k (start there...tweak it for what you need)

5) compress 3:1 with about 3dbs of gain reduction at whatever attack/release you need (again a general rule...tweak as needed)

6) do the complete opposite and add an expander. though it defies all logic...try it. ideally a multiband expander and just expander between 1-5k with about a ratio of .6:1 . I know you might say "just compress it less and it's the same thing" but it doesn't SOUND the same.

7) add a stereo imager and widen it even more. it will cause phase issues.

8) add an exciter...preferably multiband again and bus in some extra frequencies if you need to thinken it up. ideally you won't have to do this though.

to decide how much phasing you should/should not have...get a plug in like izotope ozone that will give you a phase meter. put in your favorite big time recording and check to see how in phase it is, and make sure your mix is hovering around that area. if your record is more in phase, it will never sound as wide and expansive.
 
tsl92802 said:
1) record a bitchin guitar in a bitchin guitar amp. do it twice, or more, with different tones...clean, distorted, dirty, everything. pan them accordingly about 80% left and 80% right...where you put what is up to you.

2) mic it with whatever accurately represents the tone you want

3) track is again with a direct guitar and use an amp simulator like native instruments guitar rig, or ik multimedia amplitube.

4) get rid of everything below 150hz, and everything above 5.5k (start there...tweak it for what you need)

5) compress 3:1 with about 3dbs of gain reduction at whatever attack/release you need (again a general rule...tweak as needed)

6) do the complete opposite and add an expander. though it defies all logic...try it. ideally a multiband expander and just expander between 1-5k with about a ratio of .6:1 . I know you might say "just compress it less and it's the same thing" but it doesn't SOUND the same.

7) add a stereo imager and widen it even more. it will cause phase issues.

8) add an exciter...preferably multiband again and bus in some extra frequencies if you need to thinken it up. ideally you won't have to do this though.

to decide how much phasing you should/should not have...get a plug in like izotope ozone that will give you a phase meter. put in your favorite big time recording and check to see how in phase it is, and make sure your mix is hovering around that area. if your record is more in phase, it will never sound as wide and expansive.
Click to expand...

Use these techniques at your own risk. Some of them may work sometimes. Most of the time all of them together will not work.
 
tvanveen: Yeah, you should get some closed headphones that block out a ton of sound. You'll still be getting some of the live sound (especially in the lows), but you'll be able to hear the character changing in the headphones. Just get it close.

Bloor007: DON'T GET A TRIPLE RECTIFIER!!!!!! I can't stress it enough. I was a Mesa user for years and I was NEVER as satisfied with my tone as I am now that I have an old Fender combo. Go SMALL and go VINTAGE. Trust me, they'll still be mean and dirty (listen to Queens of the Stone Age, "Songs for the Deaf"; those are ALL modded vintage Fenders)

If you do want the Mesa sound, go for something with lower wattage, like a Singe Rec, Nomad, or a Mark. Otherwise, Marshall, HiWatt, Fender, an original 5150, Orange, VOX, etc. are your best bet. Billy Joe from Green Day at least USED to use a sweet-spot JCM 800 and a Plexi. A Mesa will not be able to even approximate that tone.

Also: if it sounds too complicated to work, it just might be. ;)
 
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