In which order do we apply effects to tracks?
- Thread starter memo
- Start date
CMiller
New member
Hey Memo, that's a pretty interesting question. The answer is pretty much what you won't want to hear...it's up to you. I mean, for most applications you could probably have an order, but it all really depends on what you're looking to do. Think of it this way...
With effects, it's helpful to think of it logically and how it will affect the source's outcome.
Depending on where the effect is in the chain will decide which effect is emphasized. The last effect will almost always be the dominate effect. If you have a verb followed by a flange, you'll have a swooshy, watery sounding reverb. If you reverse it, you'll be adding a tail onto a flanged source.
It really all depends on what you're trying to accomplish. I usually have an idea what my final sonic goal is for a song, then I try to logically figure out how to achieve an end result. Here's a real life example of what I mean...
In my tune "On My Side" (http://www.mp3.com/alphadog) I wanted the background vocals to be a tight solid group but still maintain a little seperation. I wanted them a little thinner than the lead, but still be full. Here's what I did...
First, I edited out all of the breaths and silent sections. This would be like adding a gate, but it's easier for me to just do it by hand, and it saves CPU resources. Then, I slightly compressed each of them seperately to even out the individual performances and make them more uniform (note: I thought about doing this while I recorded the part in the first place, but didn't for some reason), then I took out some bottom end in each (I wanted something a little more crisp). I then sent them all to sub mix (each panned to their respective spots in the mix) where I really compressed the hell out of them with a stereo compressor (I wanted their dynamics to be totally squished). I then added some slight chorus to fill in the gaps (because I still wanted a full sound, not individual voices so much). I added some reverb. The EQing I did to each of the parts before ensured that I was EQing the vocals, not the effects.
I knew what I was looking to accomplish, and I had to sit there and plan out the best way (that I could think of) to accomplish my end goal. Other songs didn't require such a plan, because my goal was different. The goal required that the effects be inserted in a specific place. Someone else may have done it differently, but this was my plan.
I know this was pretty long winded, and I probably didn't answer the question (ha!), but I hope it helps a little.
With effects, it's helpful to think of it logically and how it will affect the source's outcome.
Depending on where the effect is in the chain will decide which effect is emphasized. The last effect will almost always be the dominate effect. If you have a verb followed by a flange, you'll have a swooshy, watery sounding reverb. If you reverse it, you'll be adding a tail onto a flanged source.
It really all depends on what you're trying to accomplish. I usually have an idea what my final sonic goal is for a song, then I try to logically figure out how to achieve an end result. Here's a real life example of what I mean...
In my tune "On My Side" (http://www.mp3.com/alphadog) I wanted the background vocals to be a tight solid group but still maintain a little seperation. I wanted them a little thinner than the lead, but still be full. Here's what I did...
First, I edited out all of the breaths and silent sections. This would be like adding a gate, but it's easier for me to just do it by hand, and it saves CPU resources. Then, I slightly compressed each of them seperately to even out the individual performances and make them more uniform (note: I thought about doing this while I recorded the part in the first place, but didn't for some reason), then I took out some bottom end in each (I wanted something a little more crisp). I then sent them all to sub mix (each panned to their respective spots in the mix) where I really compressed the hell out of them with a stereo compressor (I wanted their dynamics to be totally squished). I then added some slight chorus to fill in the gaps (because I still wanted a full sound, not individual voices so much). I added some reverb. The EQing I did to each of the parts before ensured that I was EQing the vocals, not the effects.
I knew what I was looking to accomplish, and I had to sit there and plan out the best way (that I could think of) to accomplish my end goal. Other songs didn't require such a plan, because my goal was different. The goal required that the effects be inserted in a specific place. Someone else may have done it differently, but this was my plan.
I know this was pretty long winded, and I probably didn't answer the question (ha!), but I hope it helps a little.
You're on the right track there; as was said earlier,
it depends on the final "image" you have in mind for
the track. Usually you'll want to use EQ first since
you can think of it as preparing the track -- fixing the
recorded signal to be the way you want it. From there,
you might compress it or gate it. Then you move on to
the "enhancement" effects, rather than the "preparing"
effects; that's how I think of it, anyway. It's fairly
traditional to use reverb last, with delay right before
it, but whatever sounds good is the final word.
In many cases, you can get some of the coolest sounds
by breaking the rules. Putting on reverb, then a delay,
followed by phasing, for example -- if you're going for
some evil-sounding ambience, it might do the trick.
You can also modify things by adjusting the amount of
signal going through the effect; if you send just a
small amount through the reverb so it's just starting to
put a tail on it, then you could delay that. Playing
with the effects is one of the fun parts, I think!
Don't be afraid to try anything.
it depends on the final "image" you have in mind for
the track. Usually you'll want to use EQ first since
you can think of it as preparing the track -- fixing the
recorded signal to be the way you want it. From there,
you might compress it or gate it. Then you move on to
the "enhancement" effects, rather than the "preparing"
effects; that's how I think of it, anyway. It's fairly
traditional to use reverb last, with delay right before
it, but whatever sounds good is the final word.
In many cases, you can get some of the coolest sounds
by breaking the rules. Putting on reverb, then a delay,
followed by phasing, for example -- if you're going for
some evil-sounding ambience, it might do the trick.
You can also modify things by adjusting the amount of
signal going through the effect; if you send just a
small amount through the reverb so it's just starting to
put a tail on it, then you could delay that. Playing
with the effects is one of the fun parts, I think!
Don't be afraid to try anything.
Shailat
New member
You can go with Eq first or compressing first depending on what type of Eq you are looking for.
EQ will have a effect on your compressor becuase you will change the level when you cut or boost with EQ therfore causeing the compressor to work harder in some cases.
If you boost Lows on your EQ the compressor will work much harder due to the low Freq's on your sound. You should take that into consideration.
There is no single system to this and there are many variations but Reverb tends to coms last.
EQ will have a effect on your compressor becuase you will change the level when you cut or boost with EQ therfore causeing the compressor to work harder in some cases.
If you boost Lows on your EQ the compressor will work much harder due to the low Freq's on your sound. You should take that into consideration.
There is no single system to this and there are many variations but Reverb tends to coms last.
Brian Grey
New member
memo said:
Simple piece of theory. If you want to have a peice of music fade out, do you add reverb before you make it fade, or after you fade it out? You'd most likely do the reverbe before you fade it out becuase you don't really want to add reverb to the fade out... Get that at all? Use that theory for everything else.
Prophet_81
New member
The way I like to do it is, first get the sound you want. Just listening with your ears. You could put effects on it now, like, if it's a guitar you're recording. Then place the mic that will best record that sound.
When you feel that you've almost captured that sound that you heard with your ears(you could now put an effect in the mic line, if you so desired), I compress it if I feel the signal is noticeably uneven or will cause me hardship in mixdown because of being uneven.
After compression, I take out noise.
Now, between gate and recording the track you can add some effects or wait until you've recorded the track.
After I've recorded the track, I EQ and apply effects.
Sound> Compress> Gate> Record> EQ> Effects
When you feel that you've almost captured that sound that you heard with your ears(you could now put an effect in the mic line, if you so desired), I compress it if I feel the signal is noticeably uneven or will cause me hardship in mixdown because of being uneven.
After compression, I take out noise.
Now, between gate and recording the track you can add some effects or wait until you've recorded the track.
After I've recorded the track, I EQ and apply effects.
Sound> Compress> Gate> Record> EQ> Effects
Shailat
New member
Prophet_81 said:
You have to be careful with that as you might increase noise level when compressing. I suggest you deal with noise first.
Also I would try for the same reasons to gate before compression expecialy before going to tape !!.
On drums you would also want to gate before compression lets say on a snare - to help eliminate leakage from the rest of the kit.
Prophet_81
New member
Shailat, I'll take your suggestion. In the past I've noticed a loss of quality due to gating before compression. It may have been something thing else, though. If I, again, notice a loss in quality, what do you suggest I check?
Shailat
New member
Press the bypass on the gate to see if it's the gate thats the problem and make sure you aren't cutting out things you want in the music.
Every time you go through any processor youre going to loos some quality and add some coloring but if it's a drastic change then something else is wrong.
If the gate isn't a most then snuff it.
For drum leakage I doubt you can do with out it, but if you are using a DAW then edit the noise out rather then gating.
Every time you go through any processor youre going to loos some quality and add some coloring but if it's a drastic change then something else is wrong.
If the gate isn't a most then snuff it.
For drum leakage I doubt you can do with out it, but if you are using a DAW then edit the noise out rather then gating.
Brian Grey
New member
Equipment...
I'm wondering what kind of gear you guys use to do all this gating and compression. The last time I recorded my band, which was about a year ago, for drums we just went strait from mics, to the mixing board, strait to the computer. They came out not sounding very good at all, although our main emphasis was to get used to the computer recording, which I did accomplish. But my question still stands... What do I need to put between the mics and the mixing board? or between the board and the computer? As far as the equipment for recording goes, I'm pretty much lost. Ask me a question about production or studio construction and I'll have your answer, but this gate and compression stuff has my head spinning. How do I know what to get? I don't want to spend tons of money on the wrong thing.
-Later
I'm wondering what kind of gear you guys use to do all this gating and compression. The last time I recorded my band, which was about a year ago, for drums we just went strait from mics, to the mixing board, strait to the computer. They came out not sounding very good at all, although our main emphasis was to get used to the computer recording, which I did accomplish. But my question still stands... What do I need to put between the mics and the mixing board? or between the board and the computer? As far as the equipment for recording goes, I'm pretty much lost. Ask me a question about production or studio construction and I'll have your answer, but this gate and compression stuff has my head spinning. How do I know what to get? I don't want to spend tons of money on the wrong thing.
-Later
Prophet_81
New member
Hey, Shailat, I tried switching them and I'm very pleased with the results. I guess I wasn't properly operating the compressor at the time that I had problems. I noticed a subtle difference when comparing a few guitar tracks; the new one was more clean. Thank you for putting me on the right track, Shailat.
By the way, what's the signifigance of your name?
By the way, what's the signifigance of your name?
Shailat
New member
Prophet - Glad to be of help. Try to check out 2 compression articles that Ed Wrote and I wrote a while back. It will give you a good basic background with audio examples.
As stupid as this my sound I don't even remember the link to my on article so do a search on compression from the past month and it shoul come up in some thread. If not get back to me and I'l find it and send it to you.
Brian - If you have EQ on your board and a reverb unit with a compressor and gate your'e on your way to getting good results.
Ask 2 people about what to buy and you'll get 13 opinions.
If you want I'll give you mine but since you are using a computer you might want to use some plug ins.
Don't worry to much about processing signals between the mics and the board.
A light compression can be used at this stage or a good preamp might be used, but not much more then that.
It's got to sound good - "Raw" - going to the tape.
As stupid as this my sound I don't even remember the link to my on article so do a search on compression from the past month and it shoul come up in some thread. If not get back to me and I'l find it and send it to you.
Brian - If you have EQ on your board and a reverb unit with a compressor and gate your'e on your way to getting good results.
Ask 2 people about what to buy and you'll get 13 opinions.
If you want I'll give you mine but since you are using a computer you might want to use some plug ins.
Don't worry to much about processing signals between the mics and the board.
A light compression can be used at this stage or a good preamp might be used, but not much more then that.
It's got to sound good - "Raw" - going to the tape.
dragonworks
Banned
Should a gate be used last also in the chain to prevent any
incoming unwanted signal?
incoming unwanted signal?
Shailat
New member
If you had the gate earliar in the chain then that wound slove the problem.
But I think you mean while recording?!. If thats what you mean then I would be very carefull placing a gate during the recording process. You don't want to cut out any sound that might kill the take. You can always use the gate after you ae happy with the take and adjust it to liking.
The only senerio to use a gate before mixdown would be if you don't own enough gates and will need to gate more tracks then you own. Then you can use it during
the recording process.
But I think you mean while recording?!. If thats what you mean then I would be very carefull placing a gate during the recording process. You don't want to cut out any sound that might kill the take. You can always use the gate after you ae happy with the take and adjust it to liking.
The only senerio to use a gate before mixdown would be if you don't own enough gates and will need to gate more tracks then you own. Then you can use it during
the recording process.
dragonworks
Banned
in my guitar fx chain I use the gate last to shut down the
white noise while not playing, that is what I was referring
to.
white noise while not playing, that is what I was referring
to.