In the beginning....

  • Thread starter Thread starter UkeyLove
  • Start date Start date

So where to start

  • Equipment (levels, placement etc..)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Software/post (play with one recording to see what you can do)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    3
U

UkeyLove

New member
Ok so I have a home studio set up...

had three sessions and have started to get to grips with my mixer software etc...


Gonna start recoding everything I can lay my hands on LOL its fun getting people in and making music..

But wanted to know where to start getting good.

Was thinking about getting a good clean recording i.e. looking at levels and setup etc..

But the we realised that we could do a lot in post EQs etc.

Then there is the mystery of what actually happens in mastering etc...

So where should the focus be should it be on getting the best of what I have in terms of set up or should it be getting to know logic inside out?

Sorry if this seems a silly question just want to know what people think
 
None of the above.

Start with your ears. Without those, the rest is meaningless.

Work on your critical listening skills. Learn the frequency spectrum and what the various frequency bands actually sound like on each instrument type, how to analytically listen to the music arrangement and how to support the arrangement with your mix decisions, and how to ID the key elements of a given song performance; where and what are the "hooks" that make the song special, and where/what parts of the song carry the lion's share of the weight of the song, etc.

Once you can do those things, then you will know what it is that you actually want to do with the song. Then once you can do that, you'll be ready to learn just how the gear you have can get you there.

But until then, having and knowing the gear is like having a car and knowing how to drive, but having nowhere to go.

G.
 
None of the above.

Start with your ears. Without those, the rest is meaningless.

But until then, having and knowing the gear is like having a car and knowing how to drive, but having nowhere to go.

G.

Just got similar advice on another question and its all making sense

Thanks guys...

Ok to get these skills. Very excited to get started in case you haven't guessed.

Learn the frequency spectrum and what the various frequency bands actually sound like on each instrument type,

Record a simple chord or chord progression and see the difference on playback of dropping tops mids? On Logic my mate showed me FAT EQ and what it could do... made a lot of difference

For ukuleles what are the frequency spectrums or is that the wrong question to ask?

ALso is it just playing with it and seeing what sounds better to me or are there some rules?

how to analytically listen to the music arrangement and how to support the arrangement with your mix decisions,

Now could I get a little more explanation of this point please... what do you mean by supporting it with your mixing arrangements?


and how to ID the key elements of a given song performance;

So what are the key elements is it like chorus verse bridge etc.. or is it more than that?

where and what are the "hooks" that make the song special,

This is the hit making stuff right? Is that just listening to popular music or the music that you like and figuring out which bits of the song you like.. the old whistle test?
Again I guess what I'm asking are there objective rules?

and where/what parts of the song carry the lion's share of the weight of the song,

Ok let's see if I get what you mean.

Say Cee Lo Green F**K You... (currently learning it in singing lessons so deconstructing it with my singing teacher for my voice but haven't really looked at it from a production point of view... I guess it means its quite fresh in my mind from singing purposes)

Musically Is the chorus the hook and the main carrier of the song's weight as well....

The verse type bit

"now if I was richer, I'd still be with ya"

bits use a rising feel to keep you reaching into the song?

then there is the lyrics and context which also make you sit up and listen.

overall catchy and then some


If I have that completely wrong I don't mind being told as I am here to learn.
 
Record a simple chord or chord progression and see the difference on playback of dropping tops mids? On Logic my mate showed me FAT EQ and what it could do... made a lot of difference
One method I often recommend is to get yourself a 15-band graphic EQ (hardware is best, but a plug will suffice) and a few CDs of high fidelity and of differing music genres. Rip a few songs into Logic, and play them back one at a time through the EQ with all the bands set flat. As the song plays, take one of the EQ sliders and boost it, listening to how that band sounds in each of the instruments and vocals playng. Then push that slider down, and move the next one up and listen some more. And so on down the line, mentally noting the frequency number of each band as you do it.

Do that for a half-hour a night for a week or two, then have a friend come in, put in a new song, and do the same thing with you not being able to see which band she's moving, and yo have to try and guess which band they are moving. You may not get them all exact, but you should be able to get at least close most of the time. When you can, then you'll have a much easier time listening to your recorded music and determining just what's happening frequency-wise with them.
For ukuleles what are the frequency spectrums or is that the wrong question to ask?
That depends greatly on just which key you're playing in, of course. But all instruments can use up a wide swath of the frequency spectrum not only for the fundamentals, but in resonances, harmonics, etc. Most instruments heavily overlap each other in that the are *capable* of doing. Which part of the spectrum they seem to dominate within a given song is largely determined by the songs arrangement. Which leads to...
Now could I get a little more explanation of this point please... what do you mean by supporting it with your mixing arrangements?
A whole chapter could be written on that (and I'm working on that elsewhere ;) ), but in essence it means listening to the arrangement of the song itself, the various roles of the various tracks within the song, and then planning and executing your mix plans to support that an not compete with it.
So what are the key elements is it like chorus verse bridge etc.. or is it more than that?
You're asking some big questions that require big answers. But the short answer is that you gotta decide and interpret from listening to it what you and the song agree are the stromg elements of the song; is it the lyrics, the hook-y guitar riff, the groove of the rhythm section, the overall mood, the melody, some special instrument fills, some kind of call and response action, the virtuosity of the instrumentalist, the vocalists voice, etc., or (probably) some combination of these.

The bottom line is to listen to the song and try to figure out what it "wants"; i.e. what parts of it are it's strong points, and should be reflected as such and supported in the mix. Should the lyrics play the dominant role as in a Dylan song, or is it the virtuosity on the uke like in a Jake Shimabukuro recording, or maybe the guitar riff like in the Stone's "Satisfaction", etc.
This is the hit making stuff right? Is that just listening to popular music or the music that you like and figuring out which bits of the song you like.. the old whistle test?
Again I guess what I'm asking are there objective rules?
The rules are, IMHO, to do what you think the song and the music calls for. Other than that, there are no rules.

Personally, I couldn't care less what everybody else does. It great to listen to a wide variety of music and productions, and to get ideas from others and other sources, sure. But that is different than purposely trying to follow some popular trend or "rules of fashion". The most successful artists are not the ones that try to copy others, but are those that follow their own muse and wind up wanting to be copied *by* others.

And what you hear in Cee Low's song is what YOU hear. What I hear may not be exactly the same thing. This is where things get fun; it's in listening to what the song "wants" and laying out our own interpretation on it.

It's like a movie; give a script to Ron Howard and the same script to Woody Allen, and you'll wind up with two different movies. Both will probably be very good, and both will serve the script perfectly fine, but they still will be two different movies. And that's a good thing.

G.
 
But wanted to know where to start getting good.

Was thinking about getting a good clean recording i.e. looking at levels and setup etc..

But the we realised that we could do a lot in post EQs etc.
I hope you realize how horribly illogical that is... There is NO substitute for a "good clean recording" -- If it isn't 90% "there" long before you plan on hitting the RECORD button, don't bother hitting it.
Then there is the mystery of what actually happens in mastering etc...
Should be of no concern when you're tracking and mixing.

So where should the focus be should it be on getting the best of what I have in terms of set up or should it be getting to know logic inside out?
Monitoring, room, listening skills. All the time, every time, nothing even comes close on the "important" list. Every single decision you make is based on how accurate and consistent your monitoring/space are and how well you are able to translate that.
 
One method I often recommend is to get yourself a 15-band graphic EQ (hardware is best, but a plug will suffice) and a few CDs of high fidelity and of differing music genres. Rip a few songs into Logic, and play them back one at a time through the EQ with all the bands set flat. As the song plays, take one of the EQ sliders and boost it, listening to how that band sounds in each of the instruments and vocals playng. Then push that slider down, and move the next one up and listen some more. And so on down the line, mentally noting the frequency number of each band as you do it.



The bottom line is to listen to the song and try to figure out what it "wants"; i.e. what parts of it are it's strong points, and should be reflected as such and supported in the mix. Should the lyrics play the dominant role as in a Dylan song, or is it the virtuosity on the uke like in a Jake Shimabukuro recording, or maybe the guitar riff like in the Stone's "Satisfaction", etc.The rules are, IMHO, to do what you think the song and the music calls for. Other than that, there are no rules.

it's in listening to what the song "wants" and laying out our own interpretation on it.
.


Good advice Will start learning the frequencies...

The bottom line is to listen to the song and try to figure out what it "wants"; i.e. what parts of it are it's strong points, and should be reflected as such and supported in the mix. Should the lyrics play the dominant role as in a Dylan song, or is it the virtuosity on the uke like in a Jake Shimabukuro recording, or maybe the guitar riff like in the Stone's "Satisfaction", etc.The rules are, IMHO, to do what you think the song and the music calls for. Other than that, there are no rules.

it's in listening to what the song "wants" and laying out our own interpretation on it.
.

Ok I kind of get this bit but have not really thought about what a song wants before.

Could I get a little more detail on this point please. I think I understand but I want to be sure...

I think its more conceptual as I am more used to hearing the finished product than the raw tracks that I am now starting to get into.
 
Ok I kind of get this bit but have not really thought about what a song wants before.

Could I get a little more detail on this point please. I think I understand but I want to be sure...

I think its more conceptual as I am more used to hearing the finished product than the raw tracks that I am now starting to get into.
That exactly the point; that's part of developing or having "the ears", learning to listen to music not *just* for the enjoyment of it (though *that* skill is one we should NEVER lose! :) ), but analytically - both technically and musically. It's a engineer's way of listening to the production.

I've given you enough to give you the general idea, I hope. Now it's time to just start listening and to start seeing for yourself what comes to you. Start with the music you normally listen to for entertainment. Start listening for all those different things I've mentioned, and try to figure which ones seem to work for you in any given song and which ones don't. What did the producer's intentions seem to be in the way he had that song produced, which aspects did he seem to favor? Etc. Just start listening in that way. If after a while one still just don't "get the idea" of how to listen in that way(so to speak, nothing personal meant), possibly something like a good music appreciation class might help nudge one along, maybe.

And just to add to something that might be confusing you. You've gotten rather different responses on this from me here versus John's (Massive Master) responses over n the mastering forum. Our two approaches are not competitive ideas; I agree with him entirely. The difference is there he's approaching it more form the perspective of the mastering phase, whereas here I'm talking more about the mixing phase. There is overlap in the skills of the two stages, of course, but the focus of most importance changes a bit between the two.

G.
 
You should read a book on mixing to get an idea of how the gear works "under the hood" and how it actually affects a signal. For instance, dynamic range processors do a lot more to a signal than the labels on the knobs suggest. This knowledge will help you turn unintended side-effects into predictable consequences you can exploit creatively.
 
I'll concur with the analytical listening skills, mostly because I've been lurking around these forums reading all I can handle and it always comes down to the listening.

So I've been working on critically listening to all my favorite bands and some pop music, making note of what I hear. I try to envision the stereo image, if any, what effects are being used and how I might achieve that, where the bass and kick drum fall on frequency spectrum, etc.

I've been making progress but also annoying my friends in the process. I'll be like "hey listen to this song, the guitar is panned to the left slightly and there's an extra ring on the snare at 1:22." They really don't care...

By the way, I've been working with Logic Express 9 for a few months now. Got my first recorded band under my belt and I'm ready for more! See you around the forums UkeyLove!
 
I've been making progress but also annoying my friends in the process. I'll be like "hey listen to this song, the guitar is panned to the left slightly and there's an extra ring on the snare at 1:22." They really don't care...

It's best not to discuss your aspirations with those who aren't interested, don't "get it", or worse, are the type of person who habitually poo poo other people's ideas by (for example) over-rationalizing things until they suck the magic right out of it. All of this will only instill doubt, which is the last thing you need when embarking on a challenging enterprise.
 
I've been making progress but also annoying my friends in the process.
It sounds like you're on the right track ;). I've found what annoys lay folk only annoys them until it's time to get serious and become a client. Then they tend to get impressed instead of annoyed.

I wish I had an extra buck for every time someone told me after spending 30 minutes in the control room watching a session in progress, "You know, I never really understood about all that talk and it always bugged me, but now that I've seen it at work, I get what you've been saying. I'm hearing music differently myself and when I hear a song on the radio now I'm hearing things I've never heard before."

But yeah, the Digster is right, your wasting breath talking about it to any non-client but your mother or girlfriend who will pretend to care just because they love you ;). Otherwise you might as well try getting them excited about your stamp collection or other hobby that only other stamp collectors care about.

G.
 
I've been making progress but also annoying my friends in the process. I'll be like "hey listen to this song, the guitar is panned to the left slightly and there's an extra ring on the snare at 1:22." They really don't care...
I see it a slightly different way. Why should your friends care ? If a taxi driver was taking you to your destination, would you care if they described the inner workings of the meter ? If your friend cooked you a gourmet meal and described the very interaction of the egg, the onion and the beanshoot and did you note how the crunchiness of the beanshoot alters at 21 degrees but the onion doesn't, would you care ? If every time the radiators came on your plumber friend went into great detail and discourse about the sewage system, water recycling and pipe directional flow, would you care ? Nor would I ! I'd want to get to my destination, eat my meal and get warm !! Your buds just want to listen to the music. They couldn't care less about snare rings and panned guitars forty seconds into the pre~chorus. Nor could most people. And neither should they.
On the other hand, for those of
us that do love discussing those things.....






{By the way, I'm not knocking you. In my enthusiasm, I want the world to know about panning and EQ and bass drum miking and compression tricks and double tracking etc, etc. But it's of little interest or relevance to any but a relative minority on this planet.}
 
I hear you Grimtraveller! But if the person is passionate about what they are saying I'd give them a listen.

To draw a line though, when my lady friend talks about US Weekly or Glee I tune it out... I just don't care and not sure if I ever will, ha!
 
Back
Top