In Her Eyes

  • Thread starter Thread starter ido1957
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Pretty song. I like your singing voice. Nice bass level. Things are real well played.

There seems like a buildup of frequencies around the 1K point. Seems like a lot of stuff competing in that range. To me, I'd cut the vocal in that range and then give it a boost to make up for the cut.

I agree it's pretty loud.

Just a couple of nits.
 
Hi Jan - thanks for all the great info - sure you can post the before/after for comaprison. I think that would be great for the discussion....
 
I agree with Greg_L about the ear being the test that matters but I usually find that you can see in the graphs what your ear is telling you. I don't think it is very much but by the Japanese saying that the nail that sticks up gets hammered, this is just a little something that is sticking up. Once again, not by much but attention is drawn to it. Its nice that you don't play the loudness wars game but this track does sound like a warrior, so to speak. Trying to summarise what I hear - I get the impression that I am hearing two guitars playing the same accompaniment. If one of them was taken out, it would clean up what I am hearing. There may only be one but that is how I describe what I am hearing. I have posted recordings that I thought were perfect and came away from this forum with a lot of work to do, so what I am hearing may not even be there.
 
Yo, Gerry! Great track, man. This isn't gonna be fair at all, but I've gotta say it.

I had just finished listening to Joe Walsh's "Life's Been Good", at really high volume levels when I decided to give yours a listen. The comparison isn't fair at all, and I kind of feel bad bringing it up at all, due to the almost 180 degree difference in music style, but I've gotta say - when I turned yours on, it came blasting like *CRAAAAAZY* out of my headphones. So, I turned it back down so it was at the same level as what I was listening to before, and I gotta say - everything sounded so squashed, it almost wasn't listenable. Nothing sounded defined. It sounded very claustrophobic. Whereas the previous recording was crystal clear and made me want to turn the volume *up*, yours had the exact opposite effect. Again, the comparison isn't fair because Joe is a pro, and it was a pro-recording with sparse instrumentation - a very different song than yours. But... The difference in quality was so drastic, I had to bring it up.

Just thought I'd throw my 2-cents in there. Also, I thought this before I started reading the comments, so no bias there. Let this recording *breathe*, man.
 
So, after I wrote all that, I thought the comparison was pretty un-fair, so I thought of the most heavy-hitting, hard music I've listened to recently which might cause me to think it's claustrophobic. I spun up Evanescence "What You Want" and did a back-to-back comparison (just by my ears, so this is completely subjective), and played both at the same time, I could still easily pick out your song, even while the goth-metal song was playing along side it. Still an absolutely horrible comparison, but at least I got something that wasn't a single guitar with an occasional drum beat to compare it against. I did some A/B testing, too, and sadly, In Her Arms still sounded very claustrophobic, even against something which should have made it sound sparse. I'm sorry, dude. I still love your music, though.
 
I was just listening to it again. Its hard to nail down what I am hearing. What about a HPF starting at 90Hz or so? It just sounds a tiny bit muddy. Tiny but enough to activate the audiophile neuroses..
 
Like the song a lot, nice lyrics, vocal.Cool meilow vibe....agree with the previous post that it does seem soemwhat loud in that upper mid kinda way, vocals almost seem to be on the verge of distortion at times on my headphones. Like the strings ....seems to be missing some low end kick/bass....Enjoyed the song!
 
Very big sound, G.

Trip hit it on the mid honk -- it's most prevalent in the vocal, and it's causing the lead vocal to sound like it has an edge of the "cardboard tube"/box effect. Listen for it in that context and you might begin to hear it. I do believe it can be eq'd out.

Pretty song, and the performances are spot on. Overall, nice job.
 
ok, here is master vs. mix:

master:


mix:


please note the sound of the vocals & the drums, esp. the bassdrum & bass. i'm perfectly fine if the vocals have too much mids for some peoples taste (i've not increased the mids on the vocals anyway) my view is more from a big picture perspective when i do mastering. i have upper & lower bounds. in between is the taste & that is client decision (as long as we are in between the bounds).

i've always been fine with revisions as long the client is happy. gerald, do you still like the master or would you like to have a version with less mids for the vocals? i would also recommend a version with a bit less piano & strings (my initial proposal for the master). just drop me an email...

To me, I'd cut the vocal in that range and then give it a boost to make up for the cut.
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yep, thats a valid approach in that case.

@Greg_L, i agree with you, but as you might know, i'm not responsible for the recordings esp. not the drums (gerald, who did it?). so as you said, i'm working with what i get. i'm also trusting my ears, but i wanted to show you a different viewing angle by providing the analyzer plot since you first mentioned that the 1khz range is a problem at all which is not the case. i think that just some people don't like the vocalsound (or its unfamiliar). but as mentioned above, i'm perfectly fine to decrease the mids of the vocals a bit if gerald asks me to do so.

@PI: comparing a home recording production to commercial productions is a bit unfair. mastering doesn't always mean that pro-level is achieved ;-)

I was just listening to it again. Its hard to nail down what I am hearing. What about a HPF starting at 90Hz or so?
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i don't think thats a good idea. i've never used a HPF @90hz for mastering (of such a song).

vocals almost seem to be on the verge of distortion
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and it's causing the lead vocal to sound like it has an edge of the "cardboard tube"/box effect
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personally i like the character of the mic. as far as i know it *is* a tube mic, wasn't it gerald?

i hope this could clarify the situation a bit more.
thanks again for all your comments!
 
karumba said:
@Greg_L, i agree with you, but as you might know, i'm not responsible for the recordings esp. not the drums (gerald, who did it?). so as you said, i'm working with what i get. i'm also trusting my ears, but i wanted to show you a different viewing angle by providing the analyzer plot since you first mentioned that the 1khz range is a problem at all which is not the case. i think that just some people don't like the vocalsound (or its unfamiliar). but as mentioned above, i'm perfectly fine to decrease the mids of the vocals a bit if gerald asks me to do so.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I use visual help too, like parametric EQ's and spectrum analyzers. For the record, I didn't mention anything about 1khz or any other frequency. That was someone else.
 
Thanks guys....:)

1) The microphone is a RODE NTK which is indeed a tube mic. It definitely imparts some harmonic distortion from the tube. I've come to like the beefy sound. I compared it to my Sputnik which is brighter and cuts through a mix - I still think it kicks butt - not perfect as the sibilence is something that needs to be eq'd out. The boxiness, distortion and mids are part and parcel of the mic - but I still like it...:)

2) I could see mix changes now that would involve some automation on the guitars mainly. There are spots in the verse where they sound a bit too forward. The keyboards are a good level for me - I asked Jan to increase after the first master, as I wanted them to share more of the spotlight. I still find the guitars a bit monotonous and the keys tend to add variety that this needs. I'm going to leave this mix "as is" for now but I will revisit this - I need a break from this one for a bit

3) The drums are from Jason (Poeticintensity) and are his stereo mix. I do remember when he sent it to me he mentioned he added a bit more reverb to the track (compared to others) due to the song being a ballad type. That will push them behind the rest of the instruments which probably have a lighter reverb. Stereo drums are easy to drop into a mix, but in the future I will probably get all the drums on individual tracks and practice my drum mixing. It's a natural progression in my mix experience ;-)

4) The build up in the mids is not an issue - I think it's an arrangement issue where piano, guitar and sometimes synth are all fighting for attention in the mix at various times. Plus the guitars are like I said a bit much in the verse. Again I will play with the mix later in the new year and see what can be done.

5) 128KPS MP3's suck, plain and simple. I should just post 320 MP3's and stop using Soundclick. I'll be glad when someone gives me free 320 streaming.

Thanks guys for all the feedback and suggestions regarding the mix and the master.... :D
 
ido1957 said:
Thanks guys....:)

1) The microphone is a RODE NTK which is indeed a tube mic. It definitely imparts some harmonic distortion from the tube. I've come to like the beefy sound. I compared it to my Sputnik which is brighter and cuts through a mix - I still think it kicks butt - not perfect as the sibilence is something that needs to be eq'd out. The boxiness, distortion and mids are part and parcel of the mic - but I still like it...:)

2) I could see mix changes now that would involve some automation on the guitars mainly. There are spots in the verse where they sound a bit too forward. The keyboards are a good level for me - I asked Jan to increase after the first master, as I wanted them to share more of the spotlight. I still find the guitars a bit monotonous and the keys tend to add variety that this needs. I'm going to leave this mix "as is" for now but I will revisit this - I need a break from this one for a bit

3) The drums are from Jason (Poeticintensity) and are his stereo mix. I do remember when he sent it to me he mentioned he added a bit more reverb to the track (compared to othes) due to the song being a ballad type. That will push them behind the rest of the instruments which probably have a lighter reverb. Stereo drums are easy to drop into a mix, but in the future I will probably get all the drums on individual tracks and practice my drum mixing. It's a natural progression in my mix experience ;-)

4) The build up in the mids is not an issue - I think it's an arangement issue where piano, guitar and sometimes synth are all fighting for attention in the mix at various times. Plus the guitars are like I said a bit much in the verse. Again I will play with the mix later in the new year and see what can be done.

5) 128KPS MP3's suck, plain and simple. I should just post 320 MP3's and stop using Soundclick. I'll be glad when someone gives me free 320 streaming.

Thanks guys for all the feedback and suggestions regarding the mix and the master.... :D
Click to expand...

And thanks to Jan for all his work and his details - the master is in my opinion a lot better than the original mix. I think the problems "stem" from the source not the mastering.....;-)
 
Ido, a webhosting package is not all that expensive. Mine cost me about $10 a month and I have 100GB of storage. I can put a 1.4GB Video up if I want to without even feeling the wrinkles. Its worth it to get your music up in hi-res and with your own webspace, there is no-one else advertising on your website to pay for it...
 
GuitarLegend said:
Ido, a webhosting package is not all that expensive. Mine cost me about $10 a month and I have 100GB of storage. I can put a 1.4GB Video up if I want to without even feeling the wrinkles. Its worth it to get your music up in hi-res and with your own webspace, there is no-one else advertising on your website to pay for it...
Click to expand...
]
Had a guy at work suggest that today - I should consider that as it would also provide another place ot back things up lol.....
 
Just a HPF at 80Hz... Doing an A/B it would sound like it has less body but by itself it sounds more dynamic. I might have overdone it but it doesnt have the problem that the mastered version had.
 
I just did an A - B.
Yes, the mastered version is louder - that is a given in most instances if the mix has left headroom for mastering etc.
I ended up listening to the mastered version all the way through because that one pleased my ears more: clarity, tone etc all suited my ears better than the premaster mix.
Oh, I've used Jan's services myself & have, on one or two occasions, requested a small revision here and there to suit my ear or my predetermined preferences. Conversation and the understanding that comes from it are important in the process. The mastered versions of my songs were terrific to my ears.
Great song Gerry, Nice master jan.
 
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