In a Messssss!

  • Thread starter Thread starter KenO
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KenO

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Hi!
This may be confusing!
I have been recording successfully for a number of years on some very basic equipment - its done me OK!
Here's what I use - don't laugh now!

recording software: Making Waves
preamp: audio buddy
soundcard: Soundblaster Audigy
PC: fujitsu scaleo P (nothing much on it as I have laptop for internet access)

I suddenly started to get a distortion/hiss/static when recording - tried to eliminate the problem.
PC crashed...it was getting old.
PC fixed.


Now I am getting amplification through my speakers when i record. i am still gettign the distortion through the audio buddy. Recroding straight into the mic is OK but not great - as i am getting the sound coming through the speakers at the same time! I mainly use acoustic guitar straight into the mic input, record with samples from making Waves, add vocals then mix.

So, should i upgrade or can someone advise on how to fix, eliminate my problemos?

Thank you !
 
Yeah! Thanks.

The distortion hiss hum is also in the recording.
 
I've got a schneaky idea - check this first.

Go into BIOS - if you don't know, that's usually done by tapping F2 (the function key on the top of the keyboard) as the computer is booting up. Some systems use the DEL key above the set of four arrow keys to do the same thing. So you might have to try twice!

Once you're in BIOS, check to make sure the onboard soundchip is turned OFF. My schneaky first idea is that your soundcard and the Windows sound system might be sending the commands TWICE and the commands are conflicting.

If it turns out the onboard sound IS turned off, as it should be because the soundcard takes over control, I've got another idea. I just want to eliminate this one first.

WHY I think that might have happened is because you say you had to reset your computer. Which means, by default, the onboard sound would've turned itself back on again!

Yours respectfully

Chrisulrich
 
Thanks!

I'll try that. what specifically do i look for in the bios; what area do I go to?
i'll also invest in some new leads because when it was hummming, I touched the metal of the input lead into the preamp and the humming stopped.
I'll le tyou know how i get on but if you could guide me in the bios that would be great. might as well kill two birds!
 
Thanks!

I'll try that. what specifically do i look for in the bios; what area do I go to?
i'll also invest in some new leads because when it was hummming, I touched the metal of the input lead into the preamp and the humming stopped.
I'll le tyou know how i get on but if you could guide me in the bios that would be great. might as well kill two birds!

sounds like the ground came disconnected from the ground pin.

check and see if there are any wires hanging loose inside the preamp.
 
Re: Where in the BIOS do I look?

You'd think it would be one of those easy, just-choose-this-menu-option answers, wouldn't you. The problem is, there's LOADS of bioses made by LOADS of different companies and they hide things in different places. Which makes for an interesting life, until you come to answer what sounds like a straightforwards question.

I'm feeling a little dorkish because I should have thought of earthing. That's what's prob. causing the humming - the jackplug has to be flush with the casing in order for the signal to be earthed, otherwise you get feedback, just like you get by having your electric guitar too close to its own amplifier - some showoff guitarists use that effect on purpose. So new leads - for sure.

As far as Bios goes, it's patience and looking. You're looking for an instruction saying 'Onboard sound' or 'Soundchip' or 'Native sound controller'. It's usually in the BASIC controls setup - but again, not always!! When you find it, it's 99.9% of the time PAGE UP to turn it off and PAGE DOWN to turn it on. (Enabled and Disabled, same thing.) I WISH they made one standard BIOS so I could tell you exactly where to go but they don't - and the same firm can move all the settings controls between menus in 2 different revisions of the same bios.

Have to keep life interesting for us poor consumers, don't they.

If you can't find it, tell me who makes your BIOS (it will come up saying PHOENIX BIOS or AMI BIOS or something like that) and I'll look it up for you. If you see a version number, that will help me make sure I'm looking up the right revision!!

I'm sorry I didn't think of feedback, I should have done, and I'm sorry I can't just lead you straight to the command you need. But like I said, if you want me to look up the revision for you, give me the make and revision number and I'll do it.

Yours respectfully

ulrichburke.
 
Thanks!

It's AMI BIOS/ Can't see anything which suggest sound. Now I have new leads. No hum. But my speakers (labtec 5.1) are crackling while I play and when recording. Also. my guitar is now only recording one one side even though stereo is chosen. What a ruddy messssssss! Hope you can help!
 
I would suggest not recording in stereo and just select the input of the side that its coming in on. left or right. do it mono. that is way gooder.

Thats just me though. hmmmm..

Speakers crackling is probably just deterioration of old age and you got er too loud.

The new louds may also be bringing in the signal alot better???
 
The crackling might be wrong sample setting.

Dear Friend.

The crackling MIGHT be latency. Just incase the term's new to you, that means the amount of time the signal takes to get from your instrument - guitar or whatever - throuigh the computer to the speakers. You can think of it like a piece of string, believe it or (k)not! If the sound was a single piece of string tied between your guitar and the speakers, you'd have one single, perfect connection - no crackles. If there were lots of little pieces of string between guitar and speakers, t he s ou n d wou l d lo o k some t hi ng li ke th is s en ten ce - all bits'n'gaps. The 'crackles' are the gaps between the sounds.

To check-out whether or not this IS the case, first make sure you've got ASIO selected. ASIO stands for Audio Stream Input Output and is a universal driver specifically designed to have a tiny CPU footprint - in English, that means it doesn't bother the processor much. Which, hopefully, means no gaps, so no crackles. That's the theory, anyway. Check your software's PREFERENCES to see if ASIO's selected. If you choose it and no sound at all comes out, you might need to select your soundcard's driver software - it usually shows up on START/Control Panel - and p*ss about with the settings there until you find out which ones work with Asio! Also, try different sample settings. There'll be a buffer on your sound card's settings somewhere saying 'samples'. On my M-Audio Audiophile 2496, it's in the Hardware Settings tab. Higher isn't necessarily better, it's just which one works best with the software you're using. It's suckit'n'see time, folks! If you find a setting which makes the crackles vanish, you might not need to read any more of this admittedly lengthy post.

Next thing to test, or you could try this first before the ASIO business (if you've already spent a couple hours sorting out ASIO and THEN you read this paragraph, just bung the guitar at me!) is if you get any pops/crackles just playing the guitar directly through the computer. Just - I expect you've done this already, but bear with me - plug guitar into the computer, have the soundcard outputs connected to the amps, make sure the soundcard's sliders are turned up and just play a couple of chords. I don't play an instrument - I'm disabled - but I've tried playing a tape deck through my computer by just doing that and it works with the tape deck, so it should work with the guitar.

If you hear the sounds with no pops/crackles, you're in business. Because you can download a piece of free software - it's legit. free - called Audacity. Now Audacity's HUGE place in the Scheme of Things is it records what it hears. Whatever you can hear, it can hear. So if you can hear your guitar with no pops/crackles, you can click RECORD on Audacity and just play - and Audacity will record it with no pops or crackles (Again, that's the theory, any probs. just ask and I'll see if I can reproduce the conditions and spot an answer!) Now one thing I've never managed to do with Audacity is make it wait to hear a sound, THEN start recording. NCH Wavepad can wait for a sound, that puts it one up on Audacity, but you have to buy it. It's very cheap, so it might be worth buying it for that reason alone - Audacity CAN gove you gaps to edit out if you don't start playing straight away, or if you pause to think of the next chord.

Anyway, the key thing with either of those, or with any other piece of similar software, it's just that in my opinion those two are the best of the bunch, that's not to say there aren't others as good I haven't heard of(!) is that they Record What You Hear. They're not having to make their way through any complicated programs, so there's theoretcially no latency issues, so you should get a clean recording with them. If, by the way, you've got a soundcard from a snotty-nosed company (hallo, M-Audio and the like) who say 'Our soundcards aren't designed to let you record what you hear', it's bull. They've been telling me for years mine won't let you do that - and I've got YARDS of MP3s to prove 'em wrong.

So. You've got your clean guitar take. Now I'd always do that FIRST - here's why. If you've already done the backing track, lining up the guitar so it starts in the right place/places is an absolute, jump-off-a-cliff-type nightmare. You're a couple of seconds out everywhere, guaranteed. You quantize the heck out of it and you're STILL out. I've been there.

Now there might be a better solution than the one in the next paragraph, if there is and someone puts it, or you know a better one, just say and I'll learn - I'm a relative newbie too! But here goes.

Record the guitar onto the computer. Dump the MP3 of the guitar track onto a physical MP3 player - Ipod or MP3 stick or mobile phone or similar - and play the next instrument as you're listening to it. This is where NCH Wavepad REALLY comes into its own, as opposed to Audacity. Audacity will leave a 'tail' of silence at the beginning, NCH Wavepad waits for the first sound before it starts recording. Then you'll have 2 instruments perfectly in time with eachother.

Now bung both wavefiles into Audacity/Wavepad and bounce 'em down as a rough MP3, keeping them saved as separate wave files as well. Now you can listen to the first 2 instruments on your MP3 player and play and record the 3rd in time to what you're hearing. Remember, you can't play the first 2 tracks on the computer because Wavepad/Audacity record EVERYTHING they hear so, because nothing's mixed yet, you'd get a guitar sounding like it's down one end of the street while the other instruments are right on top of you.

Once you've repeated the above steps for ALL the instruments, you can import them into whatever mixing package you use - Reaper's a freebie, but I must admit I'm having SEVERE probs., understanding how it thinks, if you can use it you could help me, or Audacity itself does perfectly good mixing AND you can add plug-ins. And just mix the track.

Now I know the above method works. I'm not saying its the best solution. It's just because it's the one that uses the least possible amount of software, if the cracks'n'pops are due to latency, it should give them the best chance NOT to happen.

Just a last sentence - mono-stereo doesn't matter when you're recording something. When you're mixing, if you have a mono track, you can copy it, pan one hard left, one hard right - hey presto, instant stereo (O.K., it's not stereo just before all the anoraks jump on me, but if it quacks like a duck...)

Say if you have any more problems and I'll try to help, I'm just a newbie too, but I've solved all the problems I've found so far - and there's been a LONG list of them. (Try several years' worth...)

Yours respectfully

ulrichburke
 
Hi!


Havent tried any of this yet. Just wanted to thank you for your time and effort in such a detailed reply. I'll get down to it at the weekend.

Thank you!

Ken
 
Tell me how everything goes

Dear Ken

Tell me how everything goes and I'll bung another couple of mixing ideas at you. Like I say, I'm NOT a great mixer. There's LOADS I don't know yet. But I DO have a couple of ideas that might help you - they work for me, anyway.

Respect

ulrichburke
 
Hi! OK!
The stereo thing has come back for some reason. Fine. Now, when i record using my Making Waves software, there are two things happening i dont want to happen.
1) the speakers are amplifying when my guitar is through the mic in (either with or without the preamp)
2) The software allows me to multi-track record and mix each track separately.
However when i record a track on top of an existing track e.g. a lead guitar on top of a rhythm, EVERTHING automatically records onto the second track.
so track 1: Rhythm
(I then play this back and add track 2 (lead) to what i hear and hopefully i have two separate tracks which can be played together as per usual with recroding software) HOWEVER!
When I play track 2 on its own, i hear both rhythm and lead.
i am still getting a bit of a hiss also.

any help would be great! Thanks!
 
Initial ideas to help with new probs...

Dear Ken.

All these things are detective work, so these are not definite answers but things to eliminate before going onto the next Great Idea (NOT!!!)

The hissing is prob. because you've got the AMPLIFIER/LOUDSPEAKER volume level up too high, so it's amplifying the background 'hiss' as well as the guitar. Now volume is VERY confusing - it took me forever to work it out. There's LOADS of volume controls on EVERYTHING all OVER the place and they all seem to be doing different things. But basically....

If you record a piece quiet enough (experiment time) so you can't hear any hiss on playback, when you re-amplify the piece as you're mixing it (GAIN), the hiss shouldn't get amplified as well. In other words, HOPEFULLY you'll get a loud track with no hiss. (As always, feel free to tell me I'm wrong.) So record quietly and use GAIN and Volume to re-amplify afterwards. The difference between GAIN and Volume, just incase you don't know, is that GAIN physically makes the track louder, as though you had the volume up louder in the first place. But because you recorded the original quieter, so there wasn't any background hiss, HOPEFULLY the GAIN won't find any hiss to amplify. Volume is just that - it's exactly like turning up a volume control on an MP3 player, television or anything else. It makes the track SOUND louder, but the tracks INTERNAL loudness is unchanged.

The recording problem you're having with stuff coming through on different tracks is called 'bleeding' and it's a b**tard! Right. Try the following steps.

Make sure you've disabled the wave output as a recording source using the soundcard's mixer or windows volume control:

* run the volume control from Start/All Programs/accessories/Entertainment (assuming you're on Windows XP)
* choose options, select the soundcard and click on the recording radio button
* check that all the "show volume control for " checkboxes are activated
* click on OK
* Now make sure that only the desired recording source (i.e. line in or mic in) is activated.

Here's the BIG kicker on that one. Some older soundcards don't allow to disable wave out as a recording and playback source independently. With such soundcards, if you disable wave out as a recording source it will also be disabled as the playback source, and you won't be able to hear the old tracks while recording a new track. If you have a soundcard that behaves this way you may consider buying another soundcard. There just isn't any other way around it, if that's the case - the soundcard just isn't good enough for what you want to use it for. I dunno what brand of soundcard you got, you tell me and I'll research it, or you can research it. Make sure you got the latest version of its driver software - it's JUST possible the older driver might not have allowed the independant disabling, but the new driver will do. Always worth trying, that one.

Back to volume. I don't know much about electric guitars - I presume that's what yours is, if not then ignore this para - because my darned hands aren't strong enough to lift one let alone play one - I HATE my disability sometimes! Anyway. If the guitar has its own volume control, turn that up to make it louder, NOT the amplifier volume control on the loudspeaker, or on the amplifer box connected to the loudspeaker. Reason? If you turn up the amplifier/speaker, you're turning up the hiss. If you're turning up the guitar itself, you're just increasing the level of signal going into the amplifier so the amp's got more to work with, the 'hiss volume' will stay the same because the amplifier's volume's unchanged!

I told you that volume gets complicated - sorry. Everything's got volume controls coming out of its ears and it's just knowing when to use which one, or not, as the case may be!

Hope that's been helpful. Tell me how you get on with it all, any probs. or anything you have. Like I keep saying, I'm NOT an expert, I'm just a beginner who's learned a few things so if I can help you with the learning curve I'm happy to.

Yours respectfully

ulrichburke
 
Ok. Let's Start from the beginning

Hi!

I am so pi**ed off with all of the stuff I have.
Now for some advice from anyone/all - and thanks for all the advice so far - on what I need.

I have just bought an Maudiophile 2496 sound card - no yet fitted.

I have: an Audio Buddy preamp, guitars with leads, mic. Labtec muti media 5.1 speakers (which I think are not compatible) I have no other interfaces or amps or anything having used software for mixing etc.

So any advice on what will give me a good set up for home recording starting with what I have. Sound card, preamp, mic and guitar - what do I need to add? Speakers? Amp? Mixer?

Thanks!

BTW I am on limited access to internet at mo.
Ta!
 
Hope this helps as far as I can.

Dear Ken.

The M-Audiophile just slots into a PCI slot, that's one of the white slots on the motherboard, sorry if you knew that already. Again, just to make sure you realise this, NEVER PUT IT IN WHEN THE COMPUTER IS SWITCHED ON, MAKE SURE THE MACHINE IS OFF FIRST. I unplugged mine to make certain, but that's prob. overkill!

The drivers from the M-Audio site are pretty good. (Yeah, I know that sounds obvious but the companies who make hardware don't necessarily make the best drivers, I've discovered that with scanners and stuff like that.)

Y'see, I can't play any real instruments any more because of the disability. It's just the co-ordination, but I find it easier using a mouse. When I WAS playing a keyboard, what I'd do is sort out the backing first and just play the keyboard over the top. Like when you go to a karaoke night and sing over the top of the CD backing track. But I'd make sure I was recording the keyboard - guitar in your case - on a separate track from the backing, so when you came to put the two together you could use everything in the mixer package to make it fit in with the backing track. I've heard wonderful howlers where you have, like, a 40-foot guitar on top of a mouse-sized orchestra. The guitar and orchestra are the right sound levels in relationship to eachother but there's this huge inexplicable SIZE difference - the guitar's on a whole different scale.

I don't know how to cure that because I've done the same mistake myself many times and I don't know why it happens, but watch out for it! If you keep the guitar on its own track, you can go straight into mixing it with the backing track. And of course the same goes with any other instruments you're playing live. Record them in layers and you can mix each instrument with the others before going onto the next.

Speakers? There's two schools of thought on that one. One school is get good mixer speakers because you get a flat sound. If you can make a flat sound sound good, so the theory goes, it'll sound good on everything. The other theory - cheaper, this! - is as people aren't using posh speakers to listen to things on (on the whole), if you mix on ordinary speakers, what you hear is what they will hear. I'm prepared to be howled at by the rest of the site for that viewpoint but I only use bog standard speakers and people seem to like my stuff. I just need to pull my finger out and write more of it!

I'm not saying if you go the posh flat-sound speakers route and you're good enough at writing/mixing that the result won't sound better. But if, like me, you're not Paul McCartney yet, the 'what you hear is what they'll hear' route with ordinary speakers seems to work OK. And it saves a bit of dough, too - speakers are like cars, they cost whatever you're willing to pay for them.

Sorry I don't know more to help you with.

Chrisulrich
 
Thanks!

Thanks! Wee bits of this are helpful! However, the inputs into the audiophile are RCA I believe whilst the leads from the speakers' amp and woofer are mini jacks. Previously, with the soundblaster, the speakers went into to the line in?
Now, however, it is only the RCA from the actual speakers which fit but then there is not amplification control as i am cutting out the woofer and volume control altogether. Does this make sense? So, actually the question is if i was starting afresh with an audiophile - which I am - which type of speakers are best - i.e. do i need and amp and speakers? Hope this makes sense! I'm tired and going to bed!
 
Hi Thanks again!

Step by step! All is well now apart from a hum i am getting from my Acoustic pickup. It goes away when i touch the metal part of the input. So, something about earthing i believe from other searches.

is there a simple way around this. i have eliminated all other problems. New Audio buddy etc. electric guitar work great through this. Only my acoustic.

Ta!

ken
 
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