I'm teaching a songwriting class - help me!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Aaron Cheney
  • Start date Start date
"Richard Pryor" would be a good end rhyme for "fire"


I still remember Richard Pryor,
runnin' down the street on fire,
screamin' real loud,
cause he was scorched and........wired

"wired" is a false rhyme but I like it

:D
 
"i think the biggest mistakes a new songwriter makes are:
A) the song has no theme
B) if it does have a theme its one that appeals to no-one but the writer
C) the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th verses say the exact same thing as the 1st verse (just different wording)
D) they can't decide whether the song is in 1st 2nd or 3rd person....past present or future tense...so they use them all and confuse the listener
E) they put corny lines in their songs in order to make a rhyme (instead of realizing the word they are trying to rhyme with needs to be changed)
F) and finally...the order of events of the story are out of order .(another words its like reading a book from the middle to the last chapter...then going back and reading the 1st half of the book)"

That really is an excellent check list. I think I'll print it off and keep it by my recording setup!! I pleed guilty to all of those in the past, but I hope I'm getting better these days.

I think the only other thing I'd add is avoid blandness. Which is easier said than done i know. Try to include some kind of novelty in the arrangement or words or tune, just something that people will latch onto.
 
This is an interesting topic. I took a songwriting course about 4 years ago. The teacher started with lectures covering really basic stuff: rhyme, meter, metaphor, simile, song structure. At the same time, we all had to start keeping a daily journal. The journal was not supposed to be "song ideas", but rather just what was on your mind every day. After about a month of "theory" and "journal writing", everyone was ready for "clustering". In class, we would each write down a word, thought or theme in the middle of sheet of paper, then quickly add other words or phrases going outward in circles from the central thought. When you ran dry, you went back to the central idea and started another thread. A couple of the people in the class were pro songwriters suffering from writers' block. The writers' block disappeared overnight. Everyone in the class was writing songs effortlessly by about 2/3 of the way through. I think the combination of the theory and the two types of writing exercises unlocked the creative potential in everyone. We're all still in touch and everyone is still writing.
 
did any one get to see the Songwriter's Award show recently? Billy Joel did an analysis of Wichita Lineman and Jimmy Webb was in the audience and they gave him an award.

Billy did the type of analysis you get at a lot of the songwriter groups. Sometimes faculty at music schools get together to do it up in front of a group of students/writers. Or clubs.

They are really helpful b/c it's basically teaching you to do it to your own songs so you can edit them. Of course Billy Joel just showed all the good highlights, and didn't do any kind of critical analysis, it's the critical type that we need to do. The positive stuff is equally important for setting goals for your lyrics.

The beginning block to critial and objective analysis is ego. They always say that they will rip the song up in front of you, if you don't mind. The block is falling in love with your first draft believing it is you baby you created and may try to defend it, if that's true, forget it. Gotta be willing to shred it if that's what it needs....
 
The best songwriters go through the process, but by themselves, constantly re-evaluating their own songs and the pros know when it's finished or needs more work, they don't need panels of experts.

I odn't see how Billy Joel could criticise the song you mentioned as it was extremely succesful, and thats all the feedback the writer needs to know. I mean Wichita Lineman is a superb song which anyone would have been proud to write.

I think if you have a brain and a willingness to take advice you can do a lot worse than join these forums and listen to advice from others. I have learned much from you good people on this and other forums. In a classroom situation you have one teacher, here you have, well...many. Of ocurse they sometimes offer contradictory advice, but thats fine too.
 
Hey Aaron - are you gonna do any workshopping in this class, that is, critiquing of songs by the class while the writer listens?

just curious as that always brings about lots of interesting issues among the students...
 
Yes, there will be workshopping, as that is the big advantage of taking a class over buying a book - real live feedback on the songs you are actually working on.

We'll also be picking apart a few songs and analizing them to see what makes them tick. We'll do few formula type songs, and also a few rule-breakers, because it's they can work too and it's important to find out how.

Just an update on the class: the comm. college is balking now, thinking there's not enough interest to fill a class, so I'm trying to get the local Community Center to make it part of their program. If that fails, I'll be placing an ad in the local paper and just rent a room down at the local music store. I think there is enough interest to generate a class around here, even if it's only 5 or 6 people. I think I'm qualified to teach a class like this, and I want that MONEY!! I'm determined to make this happen.

Wish me luck.

Aaron
http://www.voodoovibe.com
 
And by the way.... I've got the classes pretty well planned and ready to go. I got a lot of great ideas from this thread.

Thanks a million guys! I'll keep you posted on progress in finding a venue...

Aaron
http://www.voodoovibe.com
 
how did it go?

hey aaron - i know this is an old thread, but it remembered it just today as i started preparing to teach a songwriting class this summer.

i'm really interested to hear how it went, and how you see your planning and execution in hindsight. i'm also teaching guitar, theory and ensemble at a performing arts high school now, and any insights you have into sparking a creative, spirited atmosphere would really be appreciated.

peace
 
Well, the class ended up folding becuase there wasn't enought interest to sustain it. However, that ended up being a blessing in disguise: the college agreed to refer any folks that called up looking for songwriting classes straight to me. I ended up getting several private students out of it, and I got to keep all the money, as opposed to taking a smaller cut from the college. I've also been teaching a class called "Music and the Mind". I'll be teaching it again in June at a youth summer camp here in WA. Really fun and fascinating subject.

Some of the things that I've found people really enjoy:

I borrowed somebody's idea of always calling roll, and rather than having students answer with the usual "Here", I ask a "question of the day" and they must respond with their answer. The "question of the day" has to be very simple, and don't let people bargain to have more than one answer (they always try to! ). so for example, if the question was name your favorite song, roll might go something like this: John Smith? "Smoke on the Water." Jane Doe? "Wind Beneath My Wings". etc. People really like that becuase they get to express something about themselves, get to know the other students, and it's just fun. I can't remember whose idea that was, but it worked wonderfully.

I got this idea from Jagular and people like it: pull "hooks" out of a hat. Put a bunch of random hook lines in a hat and have people draw them out. Then they write a song based on it, either individually or with another student. Or... give the entire class the same hook and see how differently their songs turn out.

Another thing that works well is getting their creative juices flowing by beginning each session with quick project that "doesn't count". My favorite is to have them write a quick set of lyrics where every single word begins with the same letter.If you want to see this in action, go here. It's a great exercise.

One of the hardest things is judging each student's "thick-skinned-ness". Some are eager to absorb and open to criticism, and others immediatley want to cry/get indignant. When we play songs for critiqueing, before I push the play button on their song, I ask each songwriter what they are looking for: critique and help - or a pat on the back for having finished a song. I tell them it's great either way, but we (the class) need to know.

I also always stress that we are not learning "rules". The point of the class is to "understand" songwriting, how it works, and why certain things are often done in certain way. ONce you "understand" those things you're songs will be stronger no matter what types of songs you are writing. I do this to hopefully avoid the old "art vs. income" debate.

Good luck on your class!

A
 
hey aaron - thanks a lot. i really appreciate your thoughtful response.

so i gather that you actually have students record their songs? all of your students are players of some sort or another?

how do you throw a hook in a hat? that is a very intriguing idea.

today i did an exercise in my thoery class at school where the students wrote a chord progression based on "rules" and developed a melody by targeting harmonic notes on downbeats and filling in the rest according to counterpoint techniques we had previously studied. then we played them with bass, piano, drums - guitar and viola taking the melody. it was incredibly fun. this kind of thing works great in this setting - but how do you avoid becoming theoretical for songwriters?
 
lotuscent said:
so i gather that you actually have students record their songs? all of your students are players of some sort or another?

how do you throw a hook in a hat? that is a very intriguing idea.
Click to expand...

the more experiences songwriters usually have either recorded their songs or bring in a guitar and perform them. I was actually surprised that a few of the students had no musical experience at all... they had written poems and wanted to know how to turn them into song.

The "hook in the hat" thing is fun. Put a bunch of lyrical hook lines in hat...e.g. "What She Don't Know Won't Hurt Me", "She got new heels and I got the boot", "Two hearts are better than one", "The last time I start over again", "THis broken heart feels so right", or about a thousand more I could throw off the top of my head. Students each draw out a "hook" and write a song based on it.

I try to avoid getting too deep into theory in a songwriting class. They are inextricably linked, as you know, but if you stray too far into harmonizing scales and modes and the like, not only will you lose all the non-musician students, but you'll end up talking theory all day long, which is really another class of its own.

Instead, I talk about most songs being based certain chord changes, and breifly explain that chords often come in groups of three... the 1, 4, 5 progression. That will cover most pop, rock, and country songs right off the bat. :) I generally leave the theory at that, and tell the students if they want to know more they should take a atheory class.

I spend the bulk of music-time talking about how different note choices effect the a songs mood, and how to write music that compliments the lyrics. For example, you don't want the highest note in the crescendo of you song to land on the word "scream", because "ee's" are hard to sing, particularly on high notes. Another example would be talking about how linear melodies are common in today's pop music because they are easy to sing, however a well-placed large interval jump in your melody can really evoke a powerful emotion, e.g. the first two notes in "Somehwere Over the Rainbow".

Anyway, it's that kind of stuff that I tend to dwell on, as opposed to straight theory.

A
 
oh.... i get it. i didn't understand that you meant lyrical hook - duh.

thanks so much for your input - i have a lot of ideas and techniques i have developed over the years from teaching various things as well as taking a lot of creative writing workshops. if you ever want to mine my brain, don't hesitate.

peace
 
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