I'm starting to go crazy, any one have suggestions...

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ONEsnowRIDER

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I've just finished furring out my shed/studio and now am faced with the task of how to heat/cool/ventilate my studio. Can ANYONE, help me think of a way to do this. Heres my issue-- I only have one breaker to do both HVAC and studio off of. The line is run under cement to the shed/studio, even though I have room in the breaker box for more lines to be run, I'm REALLY not wanting to cut up the cement to do so. I'm only recording myself, no live recording going on, so I don't need alot of recording equipment. I'm limited on money.

Here are some of the ideas I've come up with--
1- run a AC cooler pump. I think there called heat/AC pumps. I've talked to some HVAC guys here and they say this would not be advisable as I live in a very dry area and in the winter it falls below 30 degrees often, and heat pumps don't work well after 30 degrees?? i guess the condensation that is created will freeze on the outside of the house, plugging the coil and burning the heater up (or something like that).

2- Only use the AC part of the heat/AC pump (this way I only have to cut a 3" hole. Use a base board heater for heat. As well as super quite ventilation system (like a bathroom ventilator) for fresh air. The problem here is then I have to cut another 4" hole for the Exhaust ventilator, and I can't seem to find a cheep acoustic vent silencers (any one know of a way to silence the Exhaust for cheep). I would also need to cut another hole/holes for return air, again I would need another silencer for this hole.


3- Build a 3' X 3' shed right outside and install a heat/AC pump, put both the coil and the blower in the room and use a bathroom ventilator to circulate the air between both rooms (so the condensation would never freeze). The ventilation system would be drawing out side air into the 3x3 shed, the heat pump would heat the air, and another ventilator would pump the warmed air into the studio and then I would run the Exhaust back into the 3x3 shed, keeping it above 30 degrees. Only problem here is the huge cost and I'm not sure it would even work.

As you can see this is driving me crazy and has brought my project to a compleat halt.

Heres a jpg of my small project

Thanks--
 
I can't post the nifty jpg I created so here are the demntions of the whole shed, they will be one larger room for mixing, and one smaller room for tracking.


7' 3/4" high + 11' 6" wide + 14' 2" length
 
You're gonna think I'm crazy but have you thought about cutting a hole in the wall (unless you have a window) and installing a window type air conditioner with heat capability? You can get them in 110V or 220V. 220V will cost you less to run but make sure your breaker box has a 220V feed to it and not just a 110V out of your house breaker box. Keep in mind you probably won't run it while actually recording (with mics) anyhow. If you have a lot of noise outside or don't want more of what's inside to get out you could make a wood "box" to place over it (inside the building) when not in use. A window air conditioner would easily keep it comfortable in a building that size and they're very cheap compared to an outside unit. This time of year they should be on sale if you can find them. Just my 2 cents worth.

DD
 
DD I did think of that, but, right now when I'm in their alone, just playing and without any computer recording equipment it heats up really fast, so I would have to have it on all the time, so the box idea wouldn't really work. Thanks for the input.
 
Knightfly, this is great information. Almost exactly what I had in mind ...the only down part to this sceerio is now I'll have to wait another year to finish this project (I hate the money part of this project).

Here is what I have in mind though--

Right outside of the shed I'm going to build a 3'x3'x7' mini-shed
 
SnowRider, if you have that much space outside your shed, you might want to consider what is called a packaged unit. It is an all-in-one unit that could sit outside on the ground, as well as provide you with fresh air through either an economizer or manual damper. Just a thought. The only thing that would need to be inside is any ductwork or grilles you may need, and of course, a thermostat. Let me know if you want any more info on this ( I happen to be in the AC Biz).
 
I have one of those mini-split thingies in my new studio that is homemade. Its really not much to look at but it works great.

I however didnt build it and I havnt really taken it apart to see how it works yet but i could if you are interested in knowing how to build it.

All i know is it consists of a tin garbage can, i think feeled with water, and airconditioner sits on top of it, and it has one of those tubes you find out of clothes driers coming out and is then put through the wall.

Really blows some good cold air into the studio and i cant hear it at all.

The big huge track lights on the ceiling are the things that heat my studio, those things get hot.

Danny
 
darnold said:
I have one of those mini-split thingies in my new studio that is homemade. Its really not much to look at but it works great.

I however didnt build it and I havnt really taken it apart to see how it works yet but i could if you are interested in knowing how to build it.

All i know is it consists of a tin garbage can, i think feeled with water, and airconditioner sits on top of it, and it has one of those tubes you find out of clothes driers coming out and is then put through the wall.

Really blows some good cold air into the studio and i cant hear it at all.

The big huge track lights on the ceiling are the things that heat my studio, those things get hot.

Danny
Click to expand...

darnold, LOL that's a good name. I just noticed where your from, it gets colder up in Rexburg then it does down in UT valley :). You say your homemade mini-split works good. I've been told that mini-splits don't work well in colder climates, but if yours is working then PLEASE give me any and all information you can ...I'm VERY interested. I would love to know how it was built. Even if you could give me a name to call, so you wouldn't have to dig around.
 
RichHead said:
SnowRider, if you have that much space outside your shed, you might want to consider what is called a packaged unit. It is an all-in-one unit that could sit outside on the ground, as well as provide you with fresh air through either an economizer or manual damper. Just a thought. The only thing that would need to be inside is any ductwork or grilles you may need, and of course, a thermostat. Let me know if you want any more info on this ( I happen to be in the AC Biz).
Click to expand...

RichHead, yes please, that would be great! Could you give me a round about of what it would cost or what exactly I would ask for when talking to my HVAC guy ...or even better do you think I could do it myself? What kind of power or gas hook up would I need.

THANKS ALOT!!!
 
ONEsnowRIDER said:
RichHead, yes please, that would be great! Could you give me a round about of what it would cost or what exactly I would ask for when talking to my HVAC guy ...or even better do you think I could do it myself? What kind of power or gas hook up would I need.

THANKS ALOT!!!
Click to expand...


You can get packaged units that are either all-electric or have electric cooling and gas heating. So, really you can get them either way. If you have a contractor already just tell them thats what you want. But unless you have gas there already, you may find it prohibitive to run gas piping.

Could you do it yourself? Maybe, depends on how proficient you are with electricity. There are laws in most places in the world now that restrict the sale of this type of stuff to contractors only, but package units are fairly simple. It depends a lot on where you live. In Las Vegas, every A/C job has to have a permit pulled, or it is essentially against code. But realistically, that probably happens about 30% of the time -- even in the most "legitimate" of contractors out here. Even if you are handy in the electrical field, your biggest hassle will be finding somebody to sell you one. But if you know somebody........ Just keep in mind that ANY product that contains refrigerant (excluding window units) could yield a fine of up to $10,000 from the folks at the EPA for improper handling. I have never heard of this happening around here, ever. But the warning is there.

Judging by the size of your room, you probably need a 1.5 or 2 ton unit (a ton is 12,000 btu's). All the major manufacturers make units in this range, and a heat pump would work fine, I don't care where you live. In a package unit they have space for additional electric heat strips, that will take care of you just fine.

If you really want to get into it, I could supply you with technical data, but only for Trane brand units. I can't speak for any other manufacturers......ah what the hell....

Here's a link if you wanted more information on something similar to what we are talking about:

http://www.westernairsystems.com/downloads/guides/packaged_heatpump/wcc.pdf

Its a pretty big pdf file, so if your connection is slow, give it a second. Let me know if you have anymore questions. I do this all day, so I am happy to contribute on this where I can. Especially since everything else on this forum I just sit here and absorb like a sponge. :)
 
ONEsnowRIDER said:

1- run a AC cooler pump. I think there called heat/AC pumps. I've talked to some HVAC guys here and they say this would not be advisable as I live in a very dry area and in the winter it falls below 30 degrees often, and heat pumps don't work well after 30 degrees?? i guess the condensation that is created will freeze on the outside of the house, plugging the coil and burning the heater up (or something like that).
Click to expand...

By the way, modern day heat pumps have protection against coils icing up. Some even do it electronically. The problem lies in the fact that at 30 degree outdoor temperature, there is simply not enough heat in the air to remove and transfer to the indoor air. Meaning they are not as effective. Right around that temperature, heat pumps typically start to struggle to keep you comfy.
 
Yup its starting to get a little cold up here. Not too bad yet though. Actually i havnt had the studio long enough to see how the thing works in the winter.

Im guessing the water in the garbage can that helps the cooling is probably going to freeze because it also looks like its going to be a cold winter.

Anyway, the guy who actually built the thing is down in Utah right now in the Salt Lake area. Hes a pretty busy guy though but if you insist on talking to him i could get you his contact. He actually is the President of "the church" 's personal sound guy.

Anyway, if you think its too much of a problem i can check it out. It really doesnt look too tough. Infact i thought it was kind of a humerous addition to studio since nothing else in their is worth less than like $2000 it seems :D. He doesnt really even have it mounted through the wall, he just pulls the tube through the window.

Danny
 
Re: Re: I'm starting to go crazy, any one have suggestions...

RichHead said:
By the way, modern day heat pumps have protection against coils icing up. Some even do it electronically. The problem lies in the fact that at 30 degree outdoor temperature, there is simply not enough heat in the air to remove and transfer to the indoor air. Meaning they are not as effective. Right around that temperature, heat pumps typically start to struggle to keep you comfy.
Click to expand...

Ya that was it, I couldn't remember exactly what he said after "at below 30 degrees the heat pump isn't very effective".


I invited another HVAC expert over yesterday, I made sure before he came over he new what he was getting into (recording studio, well ok lets say recording shed, small area, two rooms, r value etc.) so he comes over looks at it, takes some measurements and says, "well, I'm going to have to take this one back for my boss to look at". Doesn't look like I'm going to finish before the snow starts to fall ...mmmm snooow.
 
darnold said:
Yup its starting to get a little cold up here. Not too bad yet though. Actually i havnt had the studio long enough to see how the thing works in the winter.

Im guessing the water in the garbage can that helps the cooling is probably going to freeze because it also looks like its going to be a cold winter.

Anyway, the guy who actually built the thing is down in Utah right now in the Salt Lake area. Hes a pretty busy guy though but if you insist on talking to him i could get you his contact. He actually is the President of "the church" 's personal sound guy.

Anyway, if you think its too much of a problem i can check it out. It really doesnt look too tough. Infact i thought it was kind of a humerous addition to studio since nothing else in their is worth less than like $2000 it seems :D. He doesnt really even have it mounted through the wall, he just pulls the tube through the window.

Danny
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm very interested in any information you can give me. Does the contraption your talking about produce heat as well?
 
darnold said:

Im guessing the water in the garbage can that helps the cooling is probably going to freeze because it also looks like its going to be a cold winter.
Click to expand...

do you have a picture of what you are talking about? I am really trying to visualize this contraption, but I am kind of confused as to what you got there...



I have one of those mini-split thingies in my new studio that is homemade.
Click to expand...

How did you make a mini split? Your mini-split uses water as a refrigerant? Do you have a coil inside?
 
I dont have a picture of it right now and the studio is being leased out for a month at the moment. I could possibly get a picture of it soon but it will be alot easier for me to really figure the thing out.

Sorry but like i said i really didnt build it so i dont really know what all it consists of. I dont even know if its really a mini-split. But i believe it works off the same concept and either way, it works very well and it looks very cost effective.

What it appeared to me with brief looking is the tin garbage can is filled with water, then the air condition goes on top of it. I will have to check out what kind of air conditioner this is but it looks pretty typical. The input is the part right above the top of the garbage can and it is air tightened. Whether there are coils or not, im not really sure yet. Then the output consists of a tube (like a wash drier tube) then is cealed airtight that you can pull through the window.

Sorry, maybe i shouldnt have called it a mini-split, but it seemed like the same concept.

Danny
 
Sounds more like some kind of Swamp Cooler - they use evaporating water to cool with. A pic would be cool... Steve
 
Here's the update.

I've decided to go with a through the wall AC unit, and rig a cover/lid from the inside to sound proof it when not in use. A 8,000 BTU system.

http://www.brandairconditioners.com/cgi-bin/brandac/FAH086M1T.html

For air circulation I'll use two "ultra quite exhaust fans" probably by Panasonic. About 0.3 sones, 60 CFM. One for the control room, and one for the tracking room.

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webap...pId=11279&modelNo=FV-05VQ2&surfModel=FV-05VQ2

For the inlet portion of the exhaust system I'll use 1 (maybe 2) Panasonic Passive Inlet Vents, probably in the control room and leave the tracking room open when not in use--

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webap...11277&modelNo=FV-GKF32S1&surfModel=FV-GKF32S1

wish me luck.

And a big thanks to everyone for your input.
 
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