I'm new and I need a digital piano!!

[unobus20]

Hi everyone. I'm a guitar player getting into home recording and I want to buy a digital piano or synth of some sort. I have a few questions. Since I want to keep things simple, I'm thinking about getting a stage piano instead of a workstation since I don't have a clue about MIDI and probably won't be using it. I think a full-blown workstation (Roland Fantom, Yamaha Motif, Korg Triton) would be too complicated and overkill for my needs. My eyes are set on something simple and user-friendly like the Roland RD-150 or FP-3, Yamaha, P80, Kawai ESX, etc. It'll stay in my recording room so weight is not a factor. I do want 88-keys and maybe a few extra sounds besides a good grand piano sound (strings, vibes, organ, etc). My question is, which one of these would have the best piano action and sound the best? Once again, I don't need anything too complicated but a few different sounds are good. Also, should I buy a keyboard amp if it's staying in my recording studio or can I plug it into my near-field monitors? Thanks for all your help.
P.S. According to you experts, would it be good to get a sequencer built into the keyboard or can I use the sequencer on my computer program (Reason)?

 

[Wk2000]

How about the Yamaha S80? 88 keys, full-weighted, moderate synth features, plus 2 plug in expansion slots. No built in sequencer - I use Sonar.

 

[Krakit]

I have the Roland RD 100 (love my action, the sounds are Eh).

I strongly recommend the Yamaha S80.

Strongly strongly strongly.

Decent action. FANTASTIC sounds.

The most important thing is that it's expandable, which means that one day when you get bored with it (and it's only human to get bored), you can upgrade it.

Enjoy,
Carl

 

[TexRoadkill]

I have the Yamaha P80 and love the action. Great piano sound.

 

[Michael Jones]

I have a Boston, 7'-2", Semi Concert Grand Piano and I use my digits to play it, doesn't that make it digital? It has a fantastic piano sound too!
Seriously though, I think the Roland RD150 would get you started in the right direction. The yamaha S80's are pretty kinda, sort of, nice too.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Boston Piano

I was in the Steinway showroom about two weeks ago on 57th Street in Manhattan. There were Bs and Ms all over the place and they were beautiful, really, really beautiful. In one room they had a Boston piano like the one Michal Jones keeps touting (not to knock it or anything, just...well...) By cmparison, the Boston was nowhere compared to the Steinways. According to the people in the Steinway showroom, the Boston is for people who cannot afford a Steinway and want to play until they can. They can then trade up to the Steinway after some time and after they have bilt up some equity in the Boston. Its not that its no a good piano, its just that Mr.Jones talks about it like its the be-all-and-end-all of acoutic pianos. It is not. All I can say is that when in the showroom, you can play the Boston and think its okay. Then, as soon as you play one of the Steinways, you will never even want to touch the Boston again.

As for digital pianos, the Yamaha, in my opinion, has a kind of cheesy sound and nothing special in the fell department. Its not bad, its not the best. As I have said before, and has been acknowledged in the tech mags and whatever the tech polls are that the do, the KAWAI MP 9000 (not the 9500) is hands down the best feel and sound for digital piano. Nobody has made one better. As for a stage piano, that is exactly what it is. It is not a portable instrument, it is way to heavy. It does feel and play almost like a real piano and, it does sound almost like a real piano. There is no digital piano anywhere (nor is there ever likely to be one) that will sound like a Steinway (or a Boston for that matter). These pianos are another world and, frankly, the experience of playing a grand piano, a real one like a Steinway or Boston, is just another thing altogether. I realize this is besides the point but, that door was not opened by me so I thought I would add my two cents.

 

[Badger]

Do yourself a favor, check out the General Music Real Piano series. Best piano, rhodes, and whurly sounds period. You'd think I owned stock in this company as much as a rant about it, but it iritates me to no end that they are so obscure in this country. Keith Emerson and Rick Wakeman play the damn things, that should say something.

When you play this thing, not only do you get the keys you hit, but also the sympathetic vibrations of the other "strings" just like on a real piano. For instance, if I hold down a low G, let it die completely down to where I cant hear it, and then sharply strike a higher G, the lower one will sound again from the sympathetic vibrations...Just like a real piano would. They even have a damper pedal available that has vairible positions just like a real one. You can partialy mute the strings with the damper instead of just on/off. You just flat out get the most acurate piano sound available.

I grew up with a stienway in my livingroom, I know pianos, and I am damn picky about the sound. I used to lug around an old Helpinstill stage piano (how many of you remember those) because I just couldnt deal with any of the digitals, and I compared this thing to everything on the market and it won hands down(I would still prefer the stienway mind you, but for recording purposes I would take the General Music)

fenderrhodes.org lists it as the best rhodes emulation out there in thier faq. It just plain kicks ass. I own a real Rhodes, but it never leaves my house.

The thing has a left and right in, so that you can run another keyboard through it(I do this live, so I just use two channels), and even has a 1/8 inch stereo out so that you can just plug a set of computer multi media speakers into it to practice.

damn I love this board....Just makes me feel all squishy inside...

 

[Michael Jones]

Re: Boston Piano

I was in the Steinway showroom about two weeks ago on 57th Street in Manhattan. There were Bs and Ms all over the place and they were beautiful, really, really beautiful. In one room they had a Boston piano like the one Michal Jones keeps touting (not to knock it or anything, just...well...) By cmparison, the Boston was nowhere compared to the Steinways.

Jack, I agree, The Boston; however is Steinway's version of a massed produced piano, unlike the Steinway's which are hand made. But just out of curiosity Jack, what kind of piano do you own?

According to the people in the Steinway showroom, the Boston is for people who cannot afford a Steinway and want to play until they can.

I wouldn't say that its for people that can't afford a Steinway, that sounds kind of snobby. I could have had a Steinway "S" for what I paid for the Boston, But the Boston is a lot more piano than the Steinway "S". But still, a Boston owner can "trade-up" to a Steinway and receive full retail value on their Boston towards the purchase of a Steinway. That was certianly a decision in buying mine.

Its not that its no a good piano, its just that Mr.Jones talks about it like its the be-all-and-end-all of acoutic pianos. It is not.

WOW! Is that what I sound like? Well, I am proud of it, I guess that shows huh? How many professional studios let alone home-recording studios have a Grand Piano to put on their equipment list?

All I can say is that when in the showroom, you can play the Boston and think its okay. Then, as soon as you play one of the Steinways, you will never even want to touch the Boston again.

Hmmm... maybe, there's a diminishing return factor in there too. Keep in mind that my Boston is the largest one they make, the GP218. Not many colleges have piano's of this caliber in their performance halls. I know full well that Boston is not the be-all-end all of grand pianos, but it is by no means an "entry-level" grand either. And at some point, I'll most likely end up with an 8' Steinway Concert Grand in my studio, the Boston will help me get there. It's funny to think of it, but I paid more for this piano than I paid for my first house! I also played a LOT of pianos before selecting this one. I chose it over any of the Yamaha "C" series pianos (too bright). And really, when it comes right down to it, there's only 3 or 4 piano makes in this caliber: Boston, Steinway, Yamaha "C" and Bosendoffer. I have had the opportunity and privilege to perform on all 4, and if money were no object, I'd have an 8' Bosendoffer!

There is no digital piano anywhere (nor is there ever likely to be one) that will sound like a Steinway (or a Boston for that matter). These pianos are another world and, frankly, the experience of playing a grand piano, a real one like a Steinway or Boston, is just another thing altogether.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Jack Hammer]

I'm not knocking it

Sadly, I live in New Y ork city and I don't have a real piano. Actually, the real piano is an upright Kranech and Bach (I think thats the spelling) in my girlfriends apartment. We both looked at the Steinways and have tried to think of where we would have to move to be able to have enough room. You have astutely named what I would consider those pianos in the competition for worth getting. Here is the rub, since we both live in the city, we do not need cars and therefore, the amount of money we save monthly on not having an automobile could be the monthly payments on a Steinway M. The problem is where to put it. Space is very expensive. An apartment big enough for a grand piano with room left over to live would be quite expensive. Add to that the fact that I have a full home recording environment with a 24 channel mixer, Mac G4, One full 20 space rack and the need for another, keyboards, etc. etc. I don't knock your piano, Michael, not at all, I just wanted to point out that your love for your instrument seems to skew your objectivity, or, at least that is how it sounds. Your last post seemed to indicate you ability to maintain perspective and all it was was you heartfelt love for a great instrument, something I fully understand. I do, however, envy the amount of space you have. That, I'm afraid, is harder to come by than a Steinway. I could probably amortize the payments over 20 years and purchase a Steinway. They have great financing so that normal peopel can afford one, and as I said above, I don't need a car which many people spend more on than a Steinway. The Steinway is an infinitely better intestment (as is a Boston as I am sure you know) than a car. Cars depreciate ridiculously as soon as you drive them out of the showroom. You can drive a Steinway around for quite a while before that kind of depreciation sets in.

Anyway, in closing, I saw you pictures, I saw your studio, all very nice, but you do not need to hit people over the head with what you have, it sounds cocky and obnoxious. Humility...I got a Boston, its a nice piano, I played a Mozart Sontat number blah blah, what a fucking great piece of music. See, as always, my point is simple, I am wary of people that are too into the equipment. I tend to think it is a substitute for the lack of any real music coming from them. Somehow, I don't think that is true with you, I think I heard some of you stuff on MP3. BTW, I will post some when I fianlly learn how to do it. I'm trying. And, in the end, good luck with it all. Someday, I'll have that Steinway but if its ends up a Boston or Yamaha, I won't be too disappointed.

 

[Michael Jones]

Awww, Jack, I feel so misunderstood!
I'm not trying to plant seeds of envy; rather, seeds of inspiration.
If I post an MP3 on here, and people like how it sounds, naturally they are going to want to know what I used to record it. I don't think that any of the equipment I have is beyond the reach of the average - above average home rec'er. Nor did I start off with what I have now. I think my studio and the way its outfitted is borne more from necessity than anything else. Unwittingly, my choice of instrument, turns out to be one of the most difficult to record - nay, to faithfully capture on a recording. I've spent a number of years putting together an environment that could capture the awesome power and beauty of such a graceful instrument.
Please don't mis-judge me for wanting to do that. I also view my studio, its equipment, and yes, even my time on this board as an investment in my future. At some point, I'm going to want to make the break, and do this either for a living, or a supplemental income, so I'm building for that.

I will respectfully disagree with your premis that equipment is a substitution for musical prowness. Quite the contrary, I believe it to be an aid, a tool if you will, that is used to capture an already refined performance.

Oh, and Jack, I'll take Rachmaninoff over Mozart any day of the week!

In closing, I'll leave you with this:
http://artists3.iuma.com/site-bin/streammp3.m3u?190193

 

[darrin_h2000]

Best action Fatar sl-990 blows all comers out the water and even makes the lower notes louder like on a real piano. for your sounds picking up a FM module is very affordable right now I have 3 of them all for less than 100.00 each.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Not real envy

M. Jones: I'm not really envious. I'm not a covetous type person to begin with. In fact, your last post sounds so much like my view of the whole recording/home studio thing that I find the whole thing inspirational. At the time I am writing this, I do not have time to down load the MP3 since I need rest for a big day tomorrow and it is late. I am going to shut down for the night. After I listen I'll report back. I'm expecting nice sound now...
Rachmaninoff...too techinically demanding for me, but, you know, its always just the music in the end that counts, not technical prowess, not sexual prowess (well, maybe sexual prowess, o.k.) but anyway, you get the point. My girlfriend prefers Liszt which I alos eschew for less techincally demanding "riffs". This past weekend I spent some time with Beethoven, it was a nice visit and all in all, of all the people dea or alive there are to spend time with, Ludwig is not so bad. Anyway, can't wait to hear the piece so I better get some sleep. The little lady is calling from the bed, time to go to sleep.....