I'm lost in preamp hell

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Smokepole

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I've been recording for about 15 minutes and I'm shopping for my 3rd preamp. The 15-minute part is an exaggeration but the 3rd pre is not.

#1 was a Bellari Mp105, $99. I used it for about 7 minutes.

#2 was a dbx ProVocal strip $299, which sounded much better until I bought a cheap Behringer gate/compressor strip to use mainly as a gate to make home recording easier.

All I wanted was some light compression. I noticed once I had something to compare it to, that if I hit the bypass on the dbx and used the compression on the Behringer that the mic became much clearer. The dbx went back today. It had 40 presets of mic modeling etc., but it just wasn't crisp and natural even on the settings that said light compression.

#3 This shit's worse than heroin.
Now I'm looking at some pres in the $500 dollar range. Like I read in another post when I did a search, I don't want to put a Ferrari motor in a VW but this preamp thing seems to be a big stumbling block for me.

I'm using a Shure KSM27 and a Roland VS840EX. It is a hobby so high-end stuff isn't really an option. As you can see I'm a bottom feeder, but there must be a happy medium out there somewhere. Now I have to make a decision before I can record anymore.

Help, Thanks guys
 
Buy a Soundcraft M4 and a FMR RNC if you want some nice gear that you can use in a lot of different situations.

Buy a Meek if you want a lot of color but they are really only usefull on vocals and electric guitar.
 
I'm going to make this really simple for ya . . .

If all you need is a preamp, then I have one word for you: DMP3.

Alright? Say it again with me now: D-M-P-3. It's two channels, it's by m-audio, and it's like $200.

If you need an all-in-one type with preamp, compression and all that other fun stuff, then I have two more words for you:

Symetrix 528E.

That is all you will need to know in this world. Joemeek is great, but only on certain occasions - not for everyday consumption. Keep in mind that here in preamp hell, a lot of us have simply become programmed to bark out certain things like "Joemeek!" in every situation for reasons beyond logical comprehension. If you can simply block out all the other nonsense posts and irelevent but well-intentioned ramblings you are undoubtedly going to get within this thread and just remember those three magic words, then I assure you . . .

You will quickly and swiftly make your way out of the depths of the fiery pits of preamp hell. I can almost hear the angels singing. Ahhh ! !
 
damit chessrock,

now you've done it, you gona make me go out and buy a 528e, I've seen it once, tried not to look, tried to ignore it's Siren song, thought I have succeeded, and now you go and ruin it.

Lead me not to temptation, I can find it myself.

Anyway, the Symetrix does sound great, maybe a bit much for a newbie though, but I guess you gotta learn somehow.

As far as the Joemeek(MQ3 for instance) for $199 you get a very usable package, woud I track a Alto Soprano singing Ave Maria trough it, no. But for rock/blues vocals or guitar, it's a great little tool. As I mentioned before, I have been blessed by the Pre Amp Gods with a big black box with the GT Vipre logo on it(as you can imagine I've been drooling on it for the past month), yet I'm still not giving my Joemeek away.

As for the DMP3, I haven't tried it, but wait, is that the Audio Buddy all grown up? How cute!!! Jeomeek, shit, there is that programmed bark again, Sorry.

Hey chess.. where can you get a Symetrix these days, I haven't seen them around much.
 
You can always find them on ebay, and they usually sell for less than $150 which is such a steal, it's sickening. If you're a beginner-to-intermediate, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to get anything else unless you like to waste money. :) I just wanted to make sure we were all clear on this issue.

If you're in to any more advanced applications, and you have even the most basic knowlege of electronics . . . or you know of anyone who does (knows how to solder), you can swap the existing opamps for burr-brown opamps that you can get basically for free if you want them. And now your Symetrix is good enough to compete with anything in the under-$600 category.

I'm a confessed Joemeek freak myself, I'll admit, but I have to warn the newbs, because it just isn't something you always want to use for everything. And if you do, all of your stuff will have "that sound" to it. Your vintage strat won't sound like a vintage strat anyomre. It will sound like a vintage strat + Joemeek. Not a bad thing, but sometimes I just want it to sound like a vintage strat! :) And if you like to boost the high eq on vocals, they will always have that slightly over-excited high mid (meequalized) sound to them. And vocal compression? You basically have two choices: punchy, or way-too-punchy.
 
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$150, When I saw it in the store they wanted $500 for it. I guess it was a while back now, but damn, for that price I won't even feel guilty about it. Shit I'll get two, so I can tear one apart.

Thanks...
 
I haven't tried the DMP3, but I had its predecessor, the DMP2, and it was truly a killer preamp for the money.
To compare to others I also had/have:
Mackie 1202 VLZ: DMP2 was much more natural, detailed sounding.
Great River MP2 & Earthworks LAB102: The GR and LAB both sound a bit more detailed and natural....but it is extremely subtle. These pres cost about 5-6 toimes more.

The real downside to the DMP series is just that they are mechanically fragile and won't last nearly as long as their more well-constructed counterparts.
 
Interesting. I have always wondered how it would compare to other pres like the ones you mentioned. My only frame of reference is the Grace Design, and I can't honestly say that there is a huge difference in quality between the dmp2 and the grace. Pretty similar, actually. Both allowed me to hear the differences between my mics a lot better, which is what really struck me. Obviously, there were some phantom power and clipping issues with the dmp2, both of which have been corrected in the dmp3, from what I hear.

Other than that, I did think the grace was better, but it wasn't by any means a landslide victory, or even a very decisive one to be honest.

I almost think we've already got our rnmp right here. I guess the real test would be hearing several layers/tracks done with the same pre.

Have you ever tried that with the dmp2, and how did it compare with the others? What are your thoughts on that?
 
I just got in and appreciate all the responses. I haven't been able to record for 44 years and it never bothered me. Now, my studio has been down for 6 hours and I hate it.

That Symetrix seems to run a little higher than I was hoping. The DMP3 seems a little more compatible price wise with what I'm working with. One of the sights I found said they had a 30 return policy. If my local store will let me try one I'll have him order it tomorrow. If not I’ll try one of the online sites.

I'm hoping it works out. Any other suggestions???

And Thanks again
 
Gee, Crisdhunter, I've got a Joemeek twinQcs, and it wasn't that long ago that I used it to track an alto vocalist singing Ave Maria (and several other Italian art songs), and it worked just fine. No compression, no EQ, and a little more 'verb than I'd use for say, Trisha Yearwood. I'm not kidding.-Richie
 
I think what Chris was refering to was that, like you, he wouldn't use the compressor or eq on that kind of singer or arrangement.

And frankly, I can't exactly justify the idea of spending the kind of money one would spend on the twinQ if all they were going to do is bypass the compressor and eq. :)
 
The ebay link for the Symetrix unit appeared to be an SX202, their fine but discontinued dual mic pre which was replaced by the also good SX302. These are, as the name implies, units with two channels of pre and not much else besides phantom power, polarity and pad switches.

The 528E Voice Processor is a bit more expensive, as one would expect for its quality and feature set. Here is a link to a B stock bargain:

http://www.bswonline.com/public/prod_item.asp?item=528E-BSTOCK

-kent
 
Other than that, I did think the grace was better, but it wasn't by any means a landslide victory, or even a very decisive one to be honest.
Click to expand...

I think that electronics really has reached the point where even very inexpensive units can sound very very good. Microphones is the one area where differences in design and quality really make an obviously audible difference.

I never experimented much with layering lots of tracks, so there may be something to be learned there.

Even though I still have the Earthworks, if I were to buy another pre right now I would try a DMP3 first. It is not a crime to save money :) Then put the saved cash toward microphones.
 
Richard Monroe said:
Gee, Crisdhunter, I've got a Joemeek twinQcs, and it wasn't that long ago that I used it to track an alto vocalist singing Ave Maria (and several other Italian art songs), and it worked just fine. No compression, no EQ, and a little more 'verb than I'd use for say, Trisha Yearwood. I'm not kidding.-Richie
Click to expand...

Like chess said, if you use it as a pre only, there's no reason why it would have many limitations, it's a good pre.

I'm not implying that it wouldn't do the job, however it wouldn't be my first choice for something like an operatic soprano, or a Grand Piano. I have other toys for that
I've used my Joemeek for a singer that sounded so much like Trisha that with your eyes closed you could be fooled, and it sounded great, with light compression and a tough of eq, and of course a pinch of verb, just for flavor.
 
That Symetrix link was interesting. The sight I saw last night was $499. $419 makes it a little more attractive. de-essing is also a plus.

It seems similar in features to a single channel dbx unit a salesman was showing me yesterday. It was a tube unit with compression, de-essing, and a 4 band EQ, for $499.

Just for my own reference, how do these two units stack up against each other?
 
You're probably refering to a dbx 576.

They're both good boxes. I've worked with both, and my preference would be for the symetrix, but I do think the 586 is kind of cool; the tube drive can be used for some cool over-drive type effects and things like that . . . and it sounds pretty good.

The thing that strikes me is the fact that the used prices on the older 528E are so good - generally below $150. And even the used ones still soud great (mostly). I really do not think the symetrix is as great of a value if you buy it new. At that price, there are other good options out there, as well; namely the (gulp!) Mindprint Envoice.

What I'm saying is that if you're on the absolute tightest of budgets, a used symetrix 528 is about the best value if you are talking the all-in-one channel strip. Followed by those Behringer Ultravoice thingies. That's one that I forgot to mention. Those sell for about $150, and they're supposedly not half bad. Just be sure your store has a good return policy.
 
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