i'm having a midi sync problem...

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roostmusic

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well, as I just added my third synth into the mix, I had to get a 4x4 usb midi interface to compensate for the extra gear. With that a new problem arose!

Before, I was sending port 1 and port 2 midi data through the motif USB...the motif routed port 2 to the midi out and on to the 2nd synth. Both of my synths were perfectly synced when it came to arps and effect delays, ect...

Now, ports 1, 2, and 3 are routed to the 4x4 usb device, then on to the synths...In sonar, you can only select one midi output to transmit MIDI sync to (or so it appears that way). When I set it to port 1, the motif's effects and delays are perfectly synced, and the other synths are way off (because they are not receiving the sync). when I set it to port 2, the motif's effects are out of sync, and the synth on port 2 works fine.

now you see my dilemma? Why cant I send midi sync to ALL ports from SONAR?????

any help would be appreciated!!! cory
 
Sonar Help-file:
The master sends clock messages to each slave device at the rate of 24 per quarter note. The slave deviceS use these messages to establish the tempo and stay in sync.
Seems like Sonar is able to do that.

Don't ask me how... ;)
 
well you would think but clearly that is not the case. All the synths are playing the midi notes in the correct time so they are synced in that way but when it comes to syncing arp's and effect settings (ie tempo delay), they are out of wack.

anyone else have any ideas of what could cause this? thanks!
 
Are these syncing to playback tempo? I know of some digital echo-machines that need the tempo sent by SysX.
 
...I believe it's Windows - USB problem rather than SONAR. I don't use USB for music in anyway (use USB for digital camera & scanner only). If you use Win XP, then install SP1 is recomended to improve it's USB capability...
 
If it's a USB problem, then maybe it will help to uncheck the "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" in right-click My Computer -> Properties -> Hardware -> Device Settings -> USB Hub Root -> Power Managment.
 
"Are these syncing to playback tempo?"
Yes...the only things that are out of tempo are things like effect delays and arps

"I believe it's Windows - USB problem rather than SONAR. I don't use USB for music in anyway (use USB for digital camera & scanner only). If you use Win XP, then install SP1 is recommended to improve it's USB capability"

I don't think it's windows...and I've already installed SP1 (yes I'm running XP)
When I set the sync port in sonar to a different port, the port I set it to syncs up just fine...the problem is that sonar is not allowing me to specify more than one port to send midi sync to. (see under project options -> midi out -> Midi sync port)

"If it's a USB problem, then maybe it will help to uncheck the "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power"

I will look into this but like i said, when i was using the motif usb to route the midi data for ports 1 and 2, everything synced up just fine.


thanks for helping me troubleshoot this!
 
Is MIDI sync data sent through the MIDI Thru... ie on what you are sending the sync through first?

Porter
 
If you look under Options -> Project -> Midi Out, it seems that Sonar only can send start/stop/etc. signals to one Output...

But I find it strange. I was syncing my Korg M-1 (it's sequenser) and Reason (before ReWire) and had no problems.
 
...I read over and over to understand your dilemma. Is this your route ?

Before : SONAR --> motif (via USB, using motif USB MIDI driver) --> MIDI Out on to 2nd synth and the're just fine.

After : SONAR --> 4x4 (via USB)
4x4 port 1--> motif
4x4 port 2--> 2nd synth
...

and one of them is out of sync ?

Well... I don't have motif, but I use Korg O5R/W which has also Serial MIDI port driver. Connect O5R to serial port using dedicated cable. Similiar, huh? ;) Then I can controll the O5R (called synth port) and using O5R's MIDI out as extra MIDI out port in SONAR. However, there's an option in the driver's controll panel which alow me to chose whether to use the synth port and "extra" MIDI port independently, or just use 'em as "one". IF I select independently, then SONAR will send sync to either one of the port (to synth port/internal O5R OR to extra MIDI port). BUT if I select to use 'em as "one" then SONAR will assume they're on a same port, then SONAR will send sync to both. Indeed, SONAR will only send MIDI sync to ONLY one "port", but this case, both synth and extra port are assumed as "one"...

;)
Jaymz
 
"If you look under Options -> Project -> Midi Out, it seems that Sonar only can send start/stop/etc. signals to one Output..."

this is what I'm talking about...if you switch it to port 2, all the arps and FX on my virus b work fine...if i switch it to port 1, all the effects and arps on my motif work fine.


"MIDI sync data sent through the MIDI Thru... ie on what you are sending the sync through first?"

this is true only because all midi data sent to a midi IN is mirrored to the THRU....which is why my previous set up worked fine. I'm not using any MIDI THRU now because i need to use the ins/outs of each device so i can record/send automation.

surely there is a way to do this...my head is starting to hurt!
 
james, yes you are right....leme spell this out simple like you have :)

Before :
SONAR --> motif (via USB, using motif USB MIDI driver) --> MIDI Out on to 2nd synth and they both synced fine(because sonar was sending the start/stop/continue clock to port 1, and the motif was mirroring that to port 2).

After : SONAR --> 4x4 (via USB)
4x4 port 1--> motif
4x4 port 2--> virus
4x4 port 3--> nord

I send midi start,stop,continue clock to port 1:
- The motif's FX and arps sync up fine
- The virus's FX and arps are out of sync

I send midi start,stop,continue clock to port 2:
- The motif's FX and arps are out of sync
- The virus's FX and arps sync up fine

thank you all for baring with me!!
 
Have you tried connecting both motif and 4x4 into two different USB port ? I believe you have at least two USB ports. Then route :

USB 1 --> motif --> virus (...what a synth name :rolleyes: :D )
USB 2 --> 4x4 port 1 --> nord

Do you use arps only on two of them ? (motif and virus).
 
i tried that and it works....but i'd rather only have 1 usb midi device running at a time. it just doesn't make sense why you can only send a start/stop/continue/clock sync to 1 port at a time ya know?

thanks for the help! cory
 
through further investigation i have discovered that sonar can only send midi clock to 1 port. This is a limitation to sonar, not midi. Cubase SX has the capability to send midi clock to the ports that you specify in the preferences. Why sonar can't do this i have no idea...but it is very frustrating. It turns out that many other people that have more than 1 piece midi clock dependent gear have this very same problem. There are midi devices that can distribute midi clock to other ports, but it comes at a cost. just thought that i'd share my findings. cory
 
...yeah, maybe that's because they focus rather to Audio, loop & DXi thingee. Once they're the greatest for MIDI work, but I've never seen any big improvement in MIDI side for years. They just adapt previous tech came with CWPA and make a little adjustments... Hope it will get more attention in their next release (patch update). Thanks for sharing cory... ;)

Jaymz
 
Send Cakewalk a request! Nothing is done if they don't know it's a problem... :)
 
I'm sure they know...I found tons of newsgroup posts regarding the same issue...I'll tell em though just to get in another word. i may just switch to SX :) I've been toying around with the demo for a while now and am really impressed by it. You can add this to my controversial "why sx is better than sonar" post i made a while back hehe
 
And I can tell you why Sonar is better than SX:

Sonar rules!
Cubase sucks!

You got that?!? :D


(But I do mean it, though...)

Just remember the ACKUS-rule:
ALL COOL KIDS USE SONAR!
 
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