I'm going insane: All sorts of problems with Aardvark/Cakewalk

[Ptron]

Sorry this is kinda long but I'm trying to be thorough.

Here's my setup:

AardvarkQ10
Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 (soon to be Sonar 2.2XL)
WindowsXP
Athlon 1400 processor
512 Mb DDRam
2 Western Digital 40gig 7200rpm Hard drives
IWILL motherboard with either AMI or ALI chipset (I don't know which is the chipset)

I got everything set up after many headaches and began my 1st project; transfering some 8trk cassettes to my computer. The first few songs came out O.K. and I thought I was rockin'. Then I realized I had recorded in 44kHz/16bit. I tried again in 96/24. It looked to be going O.K. according to Cakewalk's little system resources meters. The disk usage one jumped up quite a bit from the 44/16 recordings to hover mostly between 40 and 50 %. The CPU meter never got much above 5 or 6% though so I thought I was good. Then I played it back. Yikes! Not only was it SUPER glitchy but the tracks were totally out of sync!

I began looking through some of these threads for help. And came accross this link http://www.musicxp.net/ for tweaking Windows XP for recording. I tried a few of the tips, including moving the Aardvark card to a different PCI slot so it would have its own IRQ. Ihad to re-install the Aardvark drivers because XP was fooled by the move and didn't recognize the card in it's new spot. I didn't do anything to Cakwalk but when I tried using it again it was very sluggish. I couldn't record because it would hang whenever I hit the button to "arm" the tracks for recording. At this point I went back and undid everything from the XP tweak tips ecxept I left the soundcard where it was. I then uninstalled and re-installed Cakewalk.

I tried again to record something. It seemed to be pretty much up to speed. The "disk" meter now goes no higher than 5 or 6% and the "CPU" meter pretty much stays at zero. But now it won't even let me play back what I record. A little window pops up that says "AUDIO DROPOUT - an audio dropout has occurred during recording or playback" and It still does some weird things like: there will be no levels in the "console" meters when their should be. Close the console and open it back up and there they are! What is going on here? I thought this stuff would be fun. Instead it's just drving me NUCKING FUTS!

Ptron

 

[Ptron]

I should also add:

There's nothing running in the background
It's a pretty fresh install of XP
I defrag obsessively
a scan turned up no viruses

Ptron

 

[CanopuS]

Hmm that sucks. I don't know whats causing it, seems everything SHOULD be working OK. Incidently, is the Q10 any good? (Do you have any recordings?)

Have you played around with the Latency meter? Sometimes that solves problems.

 

[Porter]

What is your latency set to? Try increasing it... that should help with the drop out's..

As for recording sample rates... you would probably only need to record at 16/44.1 because that is the quailty of the CD... I don't think you will gain much from 24/96 except a dramatic increase of the speed in which you use up your storage.... 24/44.1 might be better if you want to get that 'slightly bit better' than CD quality.

Now what do you mean by out of Sync?

I can't help you with the console view and why the levels aren't there the first time. (I use Sonar 2.2 XL)

Porter

 

[Sklathill]

The ALI Magick? Don't want to crush your hopes, but this is NOT an exceptional chipset. Played with this a while and it really wasn't that great even for general purpose computing work.

BTW, are your drivers in Sonar set to MME? While Aardvark cards use A|WDM drivers for low-latency, they are accessed in Sonar via MME.

 

[Ptron]

O.K., this is getteng weird

Something is really wacko. I tried again to listen to some of what I recorded.

When I open the bundle file, sometimes a loading meter appears at the bottom and it takes a second to load the audio. Sometimes it just opens.

The track colors suddenly changed from blue to yellow. I didn't do that.

When I hit play, I get the hourglass for litrerally more than ten seconds before it begins to "Play" Then the cursor would move but I would hear nothing. I tried this many times with the same result. This was a 96khz recording so I tried a 44 khz one. It would play the first two tracks but the rest were just silence with little pops. They had played before. You can see the waveforms quite clearly so what happened to the sound?

Then, out of the blue, my Q10 dissapeard off my list of choices as a recording or playback device! It still appears in the driver list. Suddenly, my only source choices are midi! The soundcard drivers are the latest available.

I think that for the second time in as many days I'm going to wipe everything associated with cakewalk and Aardvark and re-install. Man, this is fucked up. I just wanna do some recording! Is that too much to ask?

Ptron

 

[Ptron]

Now what do you mean by out of Sync?

Like the vocals being a half-second behind the drums and a quarter second ahead of the guitar, and so on.


Ptron

 

[Emeric]

You need an app that supports ASIO. Aardvark are great products, twelve tone ain't. I've used aardvark products in the past and found they worked best with ASIO based software.

Switch to a Steinberg product (or Vegas if you can tolerate the screwy interface and buss structure), you will be happier in the long run.

Not the best answer to your problems I know. 'throw money at it'. But I've not had good luck with cakewalk products.

 

[Ptron]

You need an app that supports ASIO. Aardvark are great products, twelve tone ain't. I've used aardvark products in the past and found they worked best with ASIO based software.

Switch to a Steinberg product (or Vegas if you can tolerate the screwy interface and buss structure), you will be happier in the long run.

Not the best answer to your problems I know. 'throw money at it'. But I've not had good luck with cakewalk products.

I appreciate your reply Emeric, but it ain't gonna happen. All my dough is blown and then some.

I would think that since Cakewalk PA9 comes with the Q10, there has to be plenty of people out there who use it successfully. Maybe with minor problems but what I've got is a trainwreck. Gotta get out and do something else before my head explodes. I'll do the re-install later and post the results.

Ptron

 

[Sklathill]

Has anyone here used an ALI based motherboard successfully in a DAW capacity?

I think that's the question that must be asked before anything else. The Cakewalk 9/Aardvark combo is one that is proven. So's the proc, the drives, XP, the memory... the only real big question mark is the mobo. Once we answer the mobo question, then we can get deeper into this problem.

 

[duck]

I thought this stuff would be fun

It will be after the bugs are out.
I just wanted to say dont forget the "Restore" on Win xp. It may help. Also do not have Your soundcard on a shared slot. Check MB Specs.

Has anyone here used an ALI based motherboard successfully in a DAW capacity?

Untill Amd and the rest have a longer and proven record Im sticking with Intel Cpu's and chipsets. Not that there isnt any good Amd daws. From what Ive picked up, almost all software is written around Intel chipsets also. You can blame the Hardware Manufacturers as well as the Programmers. This includes Microsoft too.
Wheres Amiga when you need them!
Jmo!

 

[Ptron]

Everything works just dandy in N-track

A friend reminded me that N-track will record multiple channels @ once so I gave it a test (never had a multi-channel sound card before so I never tried it). Unfortunately, I don't have the install program for my registered 2.x version anymore so I had to use 3.x, which only records 25 sec when unregestered. BUT, for 25 seconds it works beautifully. IN 24/96 as well. Not to mention...Damn, is it ever way easier to use than this Cakewalk bullshit. I might have to see if I can cancel my Sonar 2.2XL order and just buy a mastering plug-in.

Emeric, N-track 3.x supports ASIO so maybe that is it. But, like I said there has to be a lot of people that have gotten by just fine with the Q10/CWPA9 combo since they've been packaged together for some time.

That being said, here's what happened after my Q10/CWPA9 re-re-install. It still won't play the 96/24 songs. It goes through the motions but no sound. It will play the 44/16 songs but it only goes a few seconds before one track will glitch. Then that track will lag the others. Then another track will do it. Then another, and so on and so on.

Ptron

 

[Ptron]

I just got a reply from Cakewalk tech report. They say the problem is the ASIO thing. They advised me to get get the upgrade to Sonar, of course. I don't totally understand yet what ASIO or MME and all that jazz is but WHY THE HELL IS THE Q10 PACKEGED WITH A PROGRAM THAT DOESN'T SUPPORT IT ?!?

Ptron

P.S. I my post this as a sperate warning for those considering the Q10 when I get a chance.

 

[Guernica]

Hey P,
.....wow, did this thread come up at a good time. Im getting ready to dump a bunch of dough into a computer, interface, and software....... and was considering the exact same choices you made (Aard, sonar2.2xl).... Im gonna do some reading on that ASIO patch..... ...sounds like you might be right Em....steinberg.

.....If i go through the bullshit that P's having to dig his way out of.......IM GONNA KILL SOMEONE!!!!

 

[Ptron]

Well, supposedly Sonar 2.2 supports ASIO, at least according to the tech support E-mail I got from them. That's why they want me to upgrade to it. I don't really know myself what all that stuff (ASIO, whatever) is about so don't take my word for it... or theirs. I plan on researching this stuff a bit when I get a chance. Right now I'm REALLY busy and can barely find the time to annoy you folks with my whining If this is really a built in problem, why isn't this board filled with pissed off Q10/CWPA9 users? I can't be the only one.

Ptron

 

[Guernica]

Well, supposedly Sonar 2.2 supports ASIO, at least according to the tech support E-mail I got from them. That's why they want me to upgrade to it.

Ptron

...if you do decide to upgrade anytime soon, please post the results. I would really appreciate that
g

 

[dachay2tnr]

Couple of things to add to this thread...

First, ASIO is supported in Sonar 2.2. So is WDM. PA9 only supports MME drivers.

Second, Cakewalk has always claimed that PA9 is not supported under WinXP. Some people have been able to run it without problems, but it is not supported. Remember the PA9 software is over 4 years old, and XP didn't exist the last time it was updated. I suspect that someportion of your problems relate to using PA9 under WinXP.

Third, have you downloaded the patches for PA9. I believe it was patched through version 9.03. Don't know if that will help with any of your problems, but I would try it if you haven't done it.

Fourth, have you tried Porter's suggestion of raising your latency? That usually will help with dropouts.

Fifth, have you posted in the Cakewalk forum. I think some of your problems are related to tweaking PA9, and you might find more support for that there.

 

[Ptron]

First, ASIO is supported in Sonar 2.2. So is WDM. PA9 only supports MME drivers.

Second, Cakewalk has always claimed that PA9 is not supported under WinXP. Some people have been able to run it without problems, but it is not supported. Remember the PA9 software is over 4 years old, and XP didn't exist the last time it was updated. I suspect that someportion of your problems relate to using PA9 under WinXP.

It looks like my beef is with Aardvark then. And it's a big beef. Cakewalk PA9 is part of the product they're selling. To buy the thing and find that PA9 is inherently incompatible with it...well it's like selling a car with a years supply of gas and it turns out the gas is deisel. The Q10 quite cleary states right on the damn box that it's compatible with XP so shouldn't the software that's SOLD AS PART OF THE PACKAGE be too? I'm sure there's a disclaimer somewhere saying something about how it may not work on all machines but really, this is unconscionable.

Third, have you downloaded the patches for PA9. I believe it was patched through version 9.03. Don't know if that will help with any of your problems, but I would try it if you haven't done it.

Yeah, 9.03 is the version that came with it. I looked for updates and didn't see any.

Fourth, have you tried Porter's suggestion of raising your latency? That usually will help with dropouts.

Well, only just briefly, I admit. I didn't actually experiment with it. I'll mess around with it a little when I get the chance but we're not talking about minor glitches here and there. Anyway, I think I will dump Cakewalk alltogether and just update my N-track.

Fifth, have you posted in the Cakewalk forum. I think some of your problems are related to tweaking PA9, and you might find more support for that there.

See above.

Thanks for your help
Ptron

 

[Ptron]

MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH!!!

ALL FIXED! I think. I won't have time to mess with it extensively until this weekend. I had been trying to deal with Cakewalk mostly but I fired off an E-mail to Aardvark a coupla days ago and got a response today. Here's what fixed it:


"Go to OPTIONS | AUDIO | DEVICE PROFILES ( tab )

Under “show profile for” choose the first group of Aardvark ports listed

After selecting this, make sure all SIZE entries under “buffer characteristics” are set to 8192, and offset all at 0.

Perform the same steps for all Aardvark ports listed under “show profile for”

As for the ASIO thing, I was premature in blaming Aardvark for that. Here's what they had to say about that:


"You got a very brief, very inaccurate answer from Cakewalk. ASIO is among many driver models we support, but we are not strictly ASIO. If we were strictly ASIO, the Q10 would not even show up as an available device in Cakewalk.

Cakewalk uses MME, which is the first driver model we ever supported, and is still a component of our drivers. "

Still I might go back to N-track. Much easier to use

Ptron

 

[Porter]

Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH!!!

After selecting this, make sure all SIZE entries under “buffer characteristics” are set to 8192, and offset all at 0.

Doesn't that actually 'increase your latency'? ....as I had previously suggested.

Porter