I'm depressed - no magic snare bullet

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Supercreep

Supercreep

Lizard People
Let me give you some background.

I started with an MD8, an SM57 and a pair of C1000s and quickly outgrew it. I put a pretty good room together and started collecting gear. MOTU 896HD and RNP/RNC, JoeMeek TwinQ. Then the budget condensers. NT1A, SP B1x2, MXL 603s x2, V67G blah blah blah.

Then I picked up a D112 and realized it was the magic bullet for the kick drum. It requires no eq, no compression, nothing. It sounds great to my ears.

Why can't there be such a mic for the snare? I've tried the C1000s and the SM57 and the B1. Sounds like a thud, not a crack.

Here are some examples:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/?aid=4563/singles Blue sky has the most grist for the mill.

These songs were recorded before I got the new pres - Penelope O'Doule has a vocal track through a V67G and the RNP, but pretty much everything else is C1000s on overhead, and an SM57 on Kick and Snare. The works in progress sound better now with the 603s and the RNP/RNC on OH and the TwinQ on Kick/Snare. I've got SM57s on the three toms now too (but don't really need them). Still, I'm not happy with the snare sound. BTW, the MP3s also sound a little wooly and muddy to me compared to the songs as I monitor them through Truth monitors.

I listen to The Police and notice the Snare/HH is upfront, present, and relatively prominent in the mix. This is what I'm looking for.

I hit the snare hard with pretty consistent rimshots, and when I play the snare sounds to me like it should. I have a Mapex hand hammered steel snare and a tama maple snare, both are in good condition, tuned and adjusted well, and with relatively intact heads. Why, God, why? Can I EQ myself out of this situation? Is there a mic that will transform the sound as well as the D112 did? Or is this a placement thing... I don't seem to get drastically different results experimenting with mic placement.

I'm depressed. I didn't think I sucked that bad at engineering but I have a loooooooooooong way to go. I beseech thee!! Lend thy aid!!
 
MadAudio said:
Beyer M201. I LOVE this mic on snare, and rarely have to muck with eq.
Click to expand...

I'd love to hear one someday. I have pretty good luck with a Beta57.
 
rode nt3, no i'm serious.

maby the only thing it's good for, but dammit, it's good for it.
 
You might need to try a combination of mics.

I rarely get what I need just from one mic on the top of the snare. Usually wind up going with some combination of top snare / bottom snare, or top snare / shell.
 
Yeap, for example... a Beyer M201 on top and a Shure SM57 on the bottom can work well.
 
boingoman said:
I'd love to hear one someday. I have pretty good luck with a Beta57.
Click to expand...

They're similar, but the M201 is a bit tighter.
 
Where can I find a Beyer M201

Googling just comes up with smug satisfied bastards who already own this mic. :)
 
Where do you put the mic? If you mic it like you would a tom you'll miss the snares doing their thing. Sometimes with a well tuned snare I like to put the mic about 1/2" above and 1/2" away from the rim more or less horizontal to the drum.
 
I use a Beyer M201 on top and a Senn 421 on the side, about 2-4 inches out from the little airhole on the side of the snare. A lot of hte "snare" sound comes from the hole, the top gets the punch of the head.
 
the freakin' 414! crisp and clean and cracky and full, if you can trust your drummer.... heheh. mic placement is def. another thing to be very very thorough with. if you put one on the bottom, make sure to flip the phase! if you don't have a phase flipper in your chain you can very easily make one... just flip the l and the R on one side of your XLR! some XLRs are even easy to change, I did one last night where all I had to do was pull off the end, move two wires, and push the connector back on. you'll be amazed at the extra amount of snare sound and crack you'll get like this.
 
Obviously, YMMV. But I began to have success with the snare drum when I stopped miking it. Seriously. I just use my overheads.
 
Supercreep said:
Let me give you some background.

I started with an MD8, an SM57 and a pair of C1000s and quickly outgrew it. I put a pretty good room together and started collecting gear. MOTU 896HD and RNP/RNC, JoeMeek TwinQ. Then the budget condensers. NT1A, SP B1x2, MXL 603s x2, V67G blah blah blah.

Then I picked up a D112 and realized it was the magic bullet for the kick drum. It requires no eq, no compression, nothing. It sounds great to my ears.

Why can't there be such a mic for the snare? I've tried the C1000s and the SM57 and the B1. Sounds like a thud, not a crack.

Here are some examples:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/?aid=4563/singles Blue sky has the most grist for the mill.

These songs were recorded before I got the new pres - Penelope O'Doule has a vocal track through a V67G and the RNP, but pretty much everything else is C1000s on overhead, and an SM57 on Kick and Snare. The works in progress sound better now with the 603s and the RNP/RNC on OH and the TwinQ on Kick/Snare. I've got SM57s on the three toms now too (but don't really need them). Still, I'm not happy with the snare sound. BTW, the MP3s also sound a little wooly and muddy to me compared to the songs as I monitor them through Truth monitors.

I listen to The Police and notice the Snare/HH is upfront, present, and relatively prominent in the mix. This is what I'm looking for.

I hit the snare hard with pretty consistent rimshots, and when I play the snare sounds to me like it should. I have a Mapex hand hammered steel snare and a tama maple snare, both are in good condition, tuned and adjusted well, and with relatively intact heads. Why, God, why? Can I EQ myself out of this situation? Is there a mic that will transform the sound as well as the D112 did? Or is this a placement thing... I don't seem to get drastically different results experimenting with mic placement.

I'm depressed. I didn't think I sucked that bad at engineering but I have a loooooooooooong way to go. I beseech thee!! Lend thy aid!!
Click to expand...

Well i dunno about the snare but those overheads (cymbals) sounded great!

Edit:I like the 57 on top and bottom, it never fails.
 
AGCurry said:
Obviously, YMMV. But I began to have success with the snare drum when I stopped miking it. Seriously. I just use my overheads.
Click to expand...

That's not a bad idea, actually. When I get my Josephsons I'll give it a try FS.
 
I get a great snare sound from the c42's O/H's using the recorderman style BUT it's not ideal for a power rock styled snare sound that you hear alot of. Currently I have a maple snare on it but I'm going to dry a deeper chrome snare like a 6 1/2 inch Ludwig suprophonic and hopefully get more snare out of the drum mix.

I like micing the drums his way but boy - your really at the mercy of the kit and drummer as your options for mixing are less flexable.


(Don't I sound good at this hehehe, been reading these boards for a whole two months now :D - IE take what I say with a grain of salt, it's only my very limited experience.)
 
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