if this is considered such a "no-no," why does it sound so good?

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antispatula

antispatula

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if this is considered such a "no-no," why does it sound so good? *SOUND CLIP UP*

EDIT: Scroll down to my response a little down, I've posted a clip.

So I've always been told and read that directly micing the soundhole of an accoustic guitar was a bad idea. That it's a better idea to mic the 12th fret or something close to that. I just got an RNP and and a pair of MSH-1's, and have been expirementing with mic placement. Mind you I'm in a crappy-sounding bedroom with no treatment. I tried all sorts of different combos, using the RNP with an MSH-1, or using both, or trying a 57, or a 57 and an MSH-1. None of it sounded satisfactory. I knew how amazing the RNP sounded on my voice, why didn't it translate to guitar well?

I decided to try and put my MSH-1 directly in front of the soundhole, only about 4 inches away at most. And when I played it back, it sounded AMAZING. It was EXACTLY what I was looking for!!
 
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antispatula said:
So I've always been told and read that directly micing the soundhole of an accoustic guitar was a bad idea. That it's a better idea to mic the 12th fret or something close to that. I just got an RNP and and a pair of MSH-1's, and have been expirementing with mic placement. Mind you I'm in a crappy-sounding bedroom with no treatment. I tried all sorts of different combos, using the RNP with an MSH-1, or using both, or trying a 57, or a 57 and an MSH-1. None of it sounded satisfactory. I knew how amazing the RNP sounded on my voice, why didn't it translate to guitar well?

I decided to try and put my MSH-1 directly in front of the soundhole, only about 4 inches away at most. And when I played it back, it sounded AMAZING. It was EXACTLY what I was looking for!!
Click to expand...

WELL DONE ASpat!
You truely are the master of your own recording destiny!!..and you've proved that!!
Advice can be most benneficial to start with, but eventually you must find your own way, and you've obviously worked hard with experimentation to come up with your sound...and if it doesn't sound bad and also makes you happy then keep going!! :)

PS..It's often hard to know if something sounds totally right, but you'll most definately know when it sounds wrong!! ;)

Cheers,
Superspit.
 
The rule for micing at the 12th fret usually applies to cardioid mics, which exhibit proximity effect. The closer you get to a source, the more the bass response is enhance. The MSH1's are omni directional mics, which do not suffer from the proximity effect that cardioid mics have.
 
I've miked the soundhole (about 4") but only when playing real softly. It's way too boomy otherwise.

I'd be interested in hearing it though, can you post a clip?
 
They say even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

.
 
PhilGood said:
The rule for micing at the 12th fret usually applies to cardioid mics, which exhibit proximity effect. The closer you get to a source, the more the bass response is enhance. The MSH1's are omni directional mics, which do not suffer from the proximity effect that cardioid mics have.
Click to expand...

What he said.
 
The soundhole is normally pretty boomy. But, if you have a really thin sounding guitar, you don't play very loud, you are using an omni-directional mic, etc... it might be just the thing you need to do to get it to sound good.
 
I guess since I'm using omnis or something, there isn't much boomyness. Because I played at a normal volume, with the RNP's gain at 12 o'clock, and 3 inches away from exactly the middle of the soundhole! I put another MSH-1 pointing directly at the soundhole too, but an inch away from the 1st one, and at a 45 degree angle. I've discovered it's the mic at 45 degrees that truly makes the recording shine. Micing the soundhole got me a rich tone with lots of clarity throughout all frequencies, no boomyness or dull high's.

stereo.jpg


And of course, here's a clip!



Tell me what you guys think!

Russell
 
Sounds clean.
I think the pick sound might be a little strong, but you would have to get it in the mix to know for certain.

You could always move toward the fret board to get a little further from thepick if it ends up being to "picky"

Tom
 
I find that when mic'ing too close to the hole it sounds good on it's own but it's too boomy when mixing it in with other stuff. It tends to mask what the bass guitar is doing and no matter how much low end you try to roll off it just never sounds right. I prefer to record acoustics a little thin just in case.
 
antispatula said:
I guess since I'm using omnis or something, there isn't much boomyness. Because I played at a normal volume, with the RNP's gain at 12 o'clock, and 3 inches away from exactly the middle of the soundhole! I put another MSH-1 pointing directly at the soundhole too, but an inch away from the 1st one, and at a 45 degree angle. I've discovered it's the mic at 45 degrees that truly makes the recording shine. Micing the soundhole got me a rich tone with lots of clarity throughout all frequencies, no boomyness or dull high's.
Click to expand...

Seeing that the two mics are so close... you are likely getting some phase interaction (remember our 3:1 rule) which in this case is likely working for you.
 
bubbagump said:
Seeing that the two mics are so close... you are likely getting some phase interaction (remember our 3:1 rule) which in this case is likely working for you.
Click to expand...
No. :rolleyes: Jees, what is it with that 3:1 thing? :rolleyes: 3:1 is for when you want to attenuate the 2nd path by creating distance. That's all it's good for.
Mics that are close to each other, or seperate but at an equal distance will be in phase (more or less). His 2nd is back a bit but not much. (='s some phase on the high end) What Anti's got is more like an extremely mono-ish' XY.
 
Hey Neighbor! That's one of the cool things about omnis, and I've put an omni cap on one of my MK-012s and put it right up to the sound hole on my Martin on occasion, and gotten a very nice sound indeed. Sometimes I like to mix that with a cardioid SDC at the 12th fret, or an over the shoulder mic.
 
I think you got a good sound. I have a rather thin sounding guitar so I have to resort to mic placement (usually near or at the soundhole) for a fuller sound.


Here's a short little clip I just recorded off the top of my head. 3 different mic placements side by side, can you guess which one is the one at the soundhole? :p

The 3 mic placements are repeated at the end (~1:51) with a free stereo widener VST applied, but the first 3 are unprocessed.

 
bubbagump said:
Seeing that the two mics are so close... you are likely getting some phase interaction ...
Click to expand...


Other way around, Einstein.

.
 
Live sound

Hi,

I do a lot of live sound and sometimes I have to mic a guitar. The guitarist invariably tries to mic the soundhole. Believe me, this can cause a big problem doing live sound.

I always try to mic the wood around the bridge. Miking the 12th fret live is hard because the guitarist will move his guitar too much.

I like to use a hypercardiod like an AKG D690 about 6 inches from the guitar pointing behind and below the bridge. This positions the mic out of the performers way and if he's standing at a vocal microphone on a stand the distance between the guitar and guitar mic stays pretty good.

Cardiod mics work well too. Even vocal mics if they have good detail.

When recording acoustic guitar, expecially when recording yourself where you have plenty of time, the only good rule is try anything.

I like two msh-1 ominis on a Jecklin Disc. This works great especially on my relatively bright Sigma and gives me really good stereo.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
chessrock said:
Other way around, Einstein.

.
Click to expand...

Explain then... I apparently don't know why the 3:1 rule exists then as I thought unless you were absolutely coincident (more or less) you would run into problems.
 
Sorry, the sound is not that good. It may not be boomy but it is bass heavey and compressed.

And ittam is correct, there is no stereo image.

You will almost surely be better off placing one mic at the 12th fret (or there abouts) and one at the bridge or bout.

Also, if the room isn't too crappy, back the mics off to about 12" and let the guitar breath just a little.
 
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