ido1957's tune, All dressed up for the PARTY!!

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Llarion

Llarion

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MUHAHAHAHAHAH!!! I've been busy tonight...

Now, again, remember this was done all in headphones, so levels, balance and EQ is not yet optimized.


Also note, I'm a Jazz guy, and I've never been accused of "rocking", so be merciful on my rock chops. :)

(Yes, Gerry, I replaced your drums and added a bass...)

Overtime (with Phil on drums and bass)
 
Aaaah.....Now I can comment. The other version was OK, but without drums, it was like listening to someone singing into a tape recorder....Awesome, now!!! The drums and bass gives it all kinds of life....Don't worry about not not being a "rock guy" In fact, it's such a cliche rock song, that your approach on the bass gives it at least some originality. And your drumming is rock solid. I can't say I'm crazy about this song because there's not much original about it...it's Formula Rock 101, lyrically and musically. But you definitely brought some life to it.
 
Much better sounding....you did a good job with this. Bring some of the levels down a bit, and you've got it.
Ed
 
Yeah you weren't kidding, this is a party! Fun tune :D Sounds good, only thing I can recommend now for the EQ part you're going to do is that on my speaker the midrange sounds too high.
 
Nice job, Llarion! This mix is much more cohesive than the other one. I agree with SnakeDog5050 about the EQ.
 
Wow - A huge improvement!

Hey where are my cheesy drums and where did those awesome bass and drum tracks come from? This sounds great!

I’ve been wondering what you were up to….

Now can you do something about the guitar and vocals? (Wait, no, just kidding!). ;)

I spend very little time on the drums when song writing (tsk tsk). I can see from these results that great drum playing can make a huge improvement in the overall feel, drive and dynamics of the song.

The bass line is rockin’ too and adds a lot more punch, drive (there’s that word again) and even melody to the rhythm track.

Guess you never know how much a song can be improved until you get someone like Llarion to perform his magic with bass, drums, mixing and mastering.

Thanks Phil! :D
 
ido1957 said:
Hey where are my cheesy drums and where did those awesome bass and drum tracks come from? This sounds great!

I’ve been wondering what you were up to….

Now can you do something about the guitar and vocals? (Wait, no, just kidding!). ;)

I spend very little time on the drums when song writing (tsk tsk). I can see from these results that great drum playing can make a huge improvement in the overall feel, drive and dynamics of the song.

The bass line is rockin’ too and adds a lot more punch, drive (there’s that word again) and even melody to the rhythm track.

Guess you never know how much a song can be improved until you get someone like Llarion to perform his magic with bass, drums, mixing and mastering.

Thanks Phil! :D
Click to expand...
Working with other people can sometimes bring a tune up to another level, as you don't have to spread yourself as thin, if you don't want to. I really enjoy doing everything myself, for stuff that I have a simple plan for, but when I want something to have alot of great sounds, working with otheres really helps. Many great people on this board to work with.
Ed
 
It was my pleasure. My intent was twofold:

1) To show you how much difference mixing and mastering can make (and I only worked in headphones, so it's not nearly as good as it could be, but I havent' had time to sit down at full volume...)
2) To show you how just the addition of a strong pocket can really make a song work.

It was apparent that you have limited experience, and also limited equipment, so this was meant as encouragement, just keep pluging, and upgrade strategically as you can. There was some good guitar playing there, and I enjoy your voice too, you remind me a lot of my late best friend...
 
Llarion said:
It was my pleasure. My intent was twofold:

1) To show you how much difference mixing and mastering can make (and I only worked in headphones, so it's not nearly as good as it could be, but I havent' had time to sit down at full volume...)
2) To show you how just the addition of a strong pocket can really make a song work.
Click to expand...

And you're off to a good start Ido1957, because you can buy equipment but you can't buy talent, and your playing is very good, so you've already got that covered.
 
Llarion said:
OK, here's the final version. Listen to Mix Two, then this Final Mix back to back. Illustrated therein is the difference between mixing in headphones, the same day you tracked and listend to the song eleventy-three hundred times, and mixing and mastering the next day, in good monitors, on fresh ears. Man, what a difference!!!

Mix 2, in headphones, with tired ears

Final mix, in monitors, next day, with fresh ears
Click to expand...
Llarion, that is a great mix. You did very well with that. Sounds very full. Turned into a very good sounding song. Very impressive....
Ed
 
Thanks Dog! :) You should have seen my wife cringe and run from the room on the first mixx... :)
 
Llarion - Thanks for all your time and the great results

Llarion said:
OK, here's the final version. Listen to Mix Two, then this Final Mix back to back. Illustrated therein is the difference between mixing in headphones, the same day you tracked and listened to the song eleventy-three hundred times, and mixing and mastering the next day, in good monitors, on fresh ears. Man, what a difference!!!

Mix 2, in headphones, with tired ears

Final mix, in monitors, next day, with fresh ears
Click to expand...

Phil/Llarion
I‘ve read in a lot of places that you should mix down on monitors and not just headphones. Since I was already very impressed with the headphone mix, I wasn’t really sure what to expect on the final mix down on monitors.

But wow! As soon as it started playing I could hear the difference. It all fell into place, as they say, on the final mix. Everything seems more balanced and smoother compared to the headphone mix. There’s just the right amount of reverb to liven it up. The final mix is just a hint cleaner overall and I can really crank it up and get a big fat sound.

I’m looking forward to downloading it from my computer and playing it on my other speakers (car, home stereo etc). I know it will sound good on the other systems because it already sounds good on my (not too bad) PC speakers.

You are a master when it comes to mastering …..and bass/drums/keys/mixing etc etc. (I could go on for a while here – I’m definitely a fan). Anyone who hasn’t already needs to check out Llarion’s Lair (www.llarion.com or www.artistlaunch.com/llarion) and check him out - there’s some jazz at its finest and some rave reviews. :cool:

My thanks go out to you. I have learned a lot from this collaboration by listening to your mixes and comparing them to my own. I now have a goal to try and get my mixes closer to how yours sound. That means - as you said earlier – “a clearer, more defined, and punchier mix”. Maybe my first task will be to redo my drums and try to get some more dynamics and feeling to them (and cut way back on that high hat hehe). ;)

And thanks for the note about getting more equipment – “upgrade strategically” - you said. After listening to your mix, and reading that comment, my wife is now encouraging me to go shopping…. :D

Gerry

PS - And thanks to all the others here for listening and those who gave feedback…Dogman, Timothy Lawler, Rami, Snakedog5050, DonF, Mr songwriter, ecktronic, Gary Sharp…I’ve listened to your tunes where there was a link and they all sound great. Like I said when I first posted to this thread - I know I have a long way to go compared to some of the recordings I've heard posted here…..but I’m working on it. ;)
 
Very much appreciated Gerry!

You're welcome to keep and use my parts on that song if you wish, consider them my gift to you. Hope it sounds as good on your other systems...

One note I'd like to make, a minor caution:

Mastering is more an art than a science. I'm flattered that you want to make your mixes sound "like mine", but I'd prefer to hear that you want to make your mixes sound "great"... You see, mixing and mastering is all about choices; and as many musical styles as there are, there are at least as many mixing and mastering choices, and philosophies. There are some basic mechanics and process to learn, but after that, it's artistic choices. I'm a Jazz guy, and oftentimes the mixing and ESPECIALLY mastering choices I make are done with a conditioned Jazz ear. I tend towards a bigger bottom, smoother mids, and crisp, tailored highs. Great if you're Smooth Jazz, or Steely Dan, or Supertramp, but, that may not be the right choices for rock, for pop, for blues. Each idiom has its own stylistic demands, and steeping yourself in THAT; that will aid you best. Learn the basic tools, but mostly, educate your EAR; listen to songs you are familiar with in a new way; listen to how they are mixed and mastered; are the guitars higher or lower, are they fat in the midrange, bottom heavy, or what?

Experiement a LOT. Don't have any fear; the first try never has to be the finished product.

As far as upgrades, start with the drum machine; then get a good input interface for your PC, and get Adobe Audition or somesuch... go digital. Analog is limiting you...
 
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Llarion said:
Listen to Mix Two, then this Final Mix back to back. Illustrated therein is the difference between mixing in headphones, the same day you tracked
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I heard the difference right away, sounds good, rocking! :D

The fresh ears mean sooo much. Sometimes I record something at night and think it's great, then I wake up the next day and hear so much wrong with it!

& I never really listen when they say "don't mix on headphones" so it's kind of neat to hear the different here. The problem is.... I don't have monitors so it's like a battle between sounding good on this system and headphones. I need monitors :( lol
 
Snake, the "don't mix in phones" axiom is a reality. I hope I provided a good example why; In my cans (REALLY good ones, Beyerdynamic DT-770s) the first mix sounded linear and smooth. But the cans undershot in the upper mids, which made me overcompensate. plus, cans OVERemphsize reverb, so you undershoot there. Don't even get me startd on field placement.

You can get really good monitrs for not much money. Even the Roland non-powered ones are nice. WAY better than phones, certainly. But, you need enougn bottom so you don't artificially inflate there too.
 
Yeah I totally agree and the field placement on both my headphones and this system drive me nuts! It's cool to hear the difference on your mixes, never really heard a direct result of the processes... I'll just continue to be in denile though until I can afford some monitors ;)

But since you say the cheaper ones are decent, I think I'll take a look around see if I can some deal since I've been more serious about recording lately... it'll make my life easier :D
 
It was probably a bad career move when I bought a synthesizer this summer instead of monitors :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I appreciate the tips though, I'm still going to look into it real soon.
 
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