Ideas for recording smallish jazz ensemble?

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ad0lescnts

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Hi,
I'm going to be recording a jazz ensemble soon and I've never really worked with jazz recording before. It's going to be hard since I have to play drums on half the tunes as well... but besides that

There are 1 drum kit, 1 electric bass, 1 electric guitar, 1 trombone, 1 trumpet, 1 bari sax, and 4 alto/tenor saxes.

I have 10 inputs and we want to record everything live.

We also have access to 3 different rooms for isolation purposes, 2 small ones and one huge one that are all close together.

So basically i want some help on what I should do for mic placement/how many mics/what I should group together..?

Any help would be much appreciated.
Thank you,
T
 
just get thare earley, and try everything possible.
don't be afaraid to burn some time in setup, everyone will be happier for it later.
 
how good is the band and how tight are the dynamics?

are you playing bop or ballads or what? what era is the music from? would you like the recording to sound "modern" or "authentic" to that era?

if you are, for instance, recording a ballad from the 30s or 40s, I would use a stereo mic configuration on the ensemble as a whole, and use placement of the specific performers to determine mix balance, as was done in that era. i.e., drums in back, horns up front, bass next to the drums and guitar off to the side.

if you are going to close mic everything it can get more complicated.
 
no we don't need to get authentic with it, we're doing some contemporary stuff as well as older stuff.
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Rode NTK Valve Condenser

MXL v67G Large Diaphragm Condenser

Oktava MK012 Small Diaphragm Condenser (2)

Sennheiser e602 Bass Drum Mic

Sennheiser MD421 MKII

Beyer m201

AKG lavalier choir mic

Audix D1 Snare Mic

Radioshack clip on tom mics (2)

Shure SM57

Shure SM58

AKG D9... dynamic mic
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The band isn't AMAZING with dynamics and stuff, everyones pretty young around my age.

Thanks!
T
 
Don't make yourself crazy over this. Put everybody in the big room, set up the way they normally play.

Mic the kick, snare, and two overheads for the drums. That's 4 tracks.

Mic the guitar and bass in close; that's 6 channels.

Put a couple of mics either X/Y about 3 feet in front of (and above all the horns, or space them out a bit. That's 8 channels.

If there are people taking solos, put up a mic that everyone can walk up to for their solos. That's 9 channels.

For your first run thru, make sure that no channel hits louder than -6dB on the recorder, (-10dB would be a better level to shoot for).

Go play drums, and enjoy the session.
 
Thanks for the help!

So you don't think I should do any isolation at all? I have it readily available...

and which type of mic would you suggest for the XY of the horns?

Thanks again,
T
 
I doubt any of my favorite jazz albums were recorded with any isolation at all.



here's an idea...


track 10........................room mic!
 
if you can rent or afford a pair of ribbons (R84's will do nicely) for the Blumlein config... you'll be glad...
 
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ad0lescnts said:
Thanks for the help!

So you don't think I should do any isolation at all? I have it readily available...

and which type of mic would you suggest for the XY of the horns?

Thanks again,
T
Click to expand...
Just saw the mic list. Use the two Oktavas for the horns or forget X/Y, and go a little wider spacing, using the NTK and the V67. Aim whichever is brightest at the sax section. Aim the darker one at the trumpet/trombone. That frees up the Oktavas for drum overheads.

If you go with the NTK/V67 on drums, put the V67 over the crash and the NTK over the ride.

Use the 57 on the guitar, and the Beyer 201 or the D1 on the snare.

Use the 421 on bass and the 602 on kick.

Use the 57 or 58 for your solo mic, or whatever you have left over that sounds good. (Take the ball off the 58.) Use a foam cover on either mic, and maybe cover the foam with a sock. The 201 ain't a bad choice here, either.

One last point: you might hafta move the horn players around a little bit to get the best balance - usually no more than switching chairs, or moving someone in or out a little bit.

Finally, there's nothing in the book that says you "must" use two overheads for drums. You can use one overhead and use the other mic for a room mic, or a better solo mic.

And don't be all that concerned with bleed - it'll all work out fine. Everything except clipping is fixable, so just give yourself lots of headroom while recording. You're gonna love it!!!
 
Unless you are multitracking

I'd go with the 'Harvey' method for shure, unless you are doing serious multitracking.

If there's any improvisation especially, and the musicians are all pretty decent, you might as well go for the big live jam feel.

I used to live in Grand Rapids, and they had live jazz direct to radio there at a place called the BOB. Pretty much the same setup as Harvey was talking about, and it sounded great.

Of course, it's nice to have compressors/EQs on kick/snare/soloist and some reverb busses to play with.

I"ve gotten away with two stereo AUX busses, one on a stereo compressor and the other on stereo reverb. Seems to help when you need it.... You can dial it in in just a TAD in case someone goes crazy and swallows the mic... I usually set this compressor so it sees no action under 'normal' volumes... Make sure it gets only stuff that would have clipped your recorder or you'll end up overusing it and shooting yourself in the face for squashing the entire recording.

Usually before recording a band I give everyone lessons on how to use the mics first...

Nobody ever said that a good room had to be mic'd with more than a stereo pair or even a single omni either...
 
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i say set them all of them up in the big room and do less spot micing on the drums have trumpets and sax sharing a mics, mic the guitar amp line the bass or mic it but if the bass amp get out of hand in the room dampen it
mic the room

you should have a nice live feel with tht setup
peace
 
What about a mono OH? I've heard that traditionally jazz drums were recorded this way. However, I'm not completly positive that is true. Regardless, it would save a channel for even another room mic or what ever other use you wanted it for.
 
All of the above suggestions are great. Mono drums are cool.
My two cents are to make sure that the balance in the room is good. There will be a lot of bleed, and if someone is ragingly loud, it will be really difficult to turn them down later (unless they're supposed to be ragingly loud, then it's all good.)
 
i think i'd experiment with putting the horns in one room (stereo) and having the guitars/drums/bass in another, orrr maybe i'd DI the bass and you could put the guitar in another room. i'd imagine they'd all need windows otherwise it would be pointless to do it all live
 
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