IDE or SCSI for my Newbie needs

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Fenderbender

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Hi guys
I followed the NT vs. Win95/98/2000 thread, among others, leading to more questions. (the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know).

I want to set up a system to record audio for me 'n my buds, I think 12 in/out tracks (also use Midi) would be my typical maximum useage. I also want to use the same computer to surf the net, and print pretty pictures.

What about limited IRQ's. If I want to use:
hard drive (audio files only)
hard drive (audio programs and all the rest)
cd-rw (are these counted as 1 or 2 devices)
floppy
printer (suspect already has IRQ reserved)
modem

How many IRQ's would this require? Do I need to use a SCSI drive to use all these devices? Is a SCSI controller the same as a SCSI card?

I looked at the ASUS motherboard site, specifically at the K7M AMD athlon m'board and the AMD 750 chipset but couldn't find anything on prices. It has "2 x Ultra DMA-66/33 EIDE ports to support up to 4 ATAPI devices"

Would this m'board need a SCSI card and controller to run the devices I mentioned?
Or would a IDE 7200 rpm Quantum (as prev. recommended :)) be enough power? (Is EIDE the same as IDE)

I plan on getting (with 128k SDRAM) either a celeron466 (128k L2 cache) at $92, a 500 mhz at $146, OR A PII450 at $144. I was checking out the prices at www.componentsdirect.com (thanks Slack) but am again confused: what is FCPGA vs Slot 1; what is OEM; what is Class CPU w/MMX.
I presume that this pentium will outperform these Celerons. (am not sure about these prices since it costs us about $1.50 of our "funny money" for one of yours :eek: )


Also for my OS needs (i.e.amateur mostly for fun, with a few dreams left), can anyone tell me: NT, win95(b or c), wait till 2000 (shipping here today). I just don't want to buy a Harley when a ten speed will get me there, and maybe easier.

I just need to decide whether I need SCSI or IDE (think I need to know before I buy my motherboard), and I think that devices, like cd-rw's, are either IDE or SCSI controlled, so before I buy them....

Sorry, guys, I, like Ola, will try to learn to write shorter posts. Didn't plan on asking you all to write a novel just to help a guy out. :rolleyes:

Bits and pieces welcome

Fenderbender
(in the midst of 62 cm. of snow in past 4 days, that's over 24 inches. Been rearended x 2, 1 in my car, then the loaner next day. Kind of prophetic how I picked my username. I WAS talking about my guitar Lord!!!)
 
SCSI only...... Lots-o-people agree that the faster transfer is good. The CD devices can be SCSI(and probably should) but they dont have to be. I have IDE DVD and CDRW.... they work fine... As far as chips and stuff you might want to go w/ Intell pent. and not athlon...... I have heard that lots of audio software makes use of the P's floating points better. You might want to go ahead and start looking for soundcards.
 
Yeah definately SCSI, but you'll probably need to invest in a SCSI controller to run the drives etc, I don't think standard motherboards come with them already in.
 
Definately NOT SCSI if you're on a budget. Man I feel like I've argued this 1000 times. There is so much bullshit out there in regards to SCSI vs. EIDE it's ridiculous.
Are you running a file server & some heavy duty network applications? Got 475 files handles running around? Got a lot of money? Running 15 applications at a time? Recording 100 tracks for a single project?

1) IRQ's are controller dependent. Your hard disk itself doesn't actually "use" an IRQ. Each controller hogs a single IRQ. Typical IDE controllers are actually two controllers each supporting two devices. A total of TWO IRQ's are required for up to 4 devices...this is the way EVERY single standard PC is setup. SCSI will allow you to chain more devices (up to 7) from a single controller, meaning more devices per IRQ....but how many devices do you need? If you have 3 hard drives then throw one away. I can't see much need for more than 2 hard drives, 1 DVD/CDROM drive, and one CDRW drive. That'll fit on yer IDE controller.

2) SCSI is better suited to multitasking situations, but does not use less CPU time than modern EIDE (w/bus mastering).

3) Hard drives, SCSI or EIDE, do not actually transfer at the maximum transfer rate....that is, they will not SUSTAIN transfers at their maximum rate. SCSI boasts 40 and 80MB/s typically and UDMA/ATA boasts 33 and 66MB/s. At 7200 RPM, UDMA drives are definately contendors. (the newest SCSI will crank, I believe, to 120Mb/sec....but 10,000RPM EIDE drives are right around the corner!) I posted a bunch of links in other threads recently on this same subject. Remember the article with the early UDMA/33 drive BEATING its twin SCSI (Ultra) drive in almost every benchmark? Yes that's misleading, but your smart, so it's valid.

4) OEM hardware/software is non-retail stuff. It doesn't come in a box and usually will not come with much of a manual (what does these days). It is designed to be sold to resellers (e.g. those building machines), but you can certainly buy it. Buying hardware OEM will save you quite a bit of dough over buying it retail.

5) Yes, a SCSI card is the same as a SCSI controller. Or I should say that a SCSI card will have one or more SCSI controllers onboard. Expect to spend $130+. There are some motherboards out there with integrated SCSI controllers also, but that might not be the wisest choice.

6) The price breakdown. SCSI Hard Drive = ~$30/GB. ATA Hard Drive = ~$10/GB on the high side. Factor in that Quantum 20.5GB for $156 and you're looking at $7.60/GB. That's a big difference...and then consider the cost of your extra controller which is not required by ATA drives on current motherboards.

7) Reliability. There is nothing about SCSI hard drive design that makes them more reliable. The fact that EIDE drives break down more is due to manufacturers making poor drives at dirt cheap prices. That doesn't mean that all EIDE drives are bad. You should look especially for IDE drives that have SCSI "brothers". Often manufacturers will make the same drive and wire some up for SCSI and some up for EIDE.

8) Get a PII, PIII, or Athlon processor. The best you can afford. Celeron's aren't so much a great deal anymore, and don't provide the performance of a true PII. The Athlon processor is pretty nice too...AMD has fixed its old FPU problems so don't worry about "AMD processors can't do floating point math" type shit. The Athlon is a next generation processor and beats the PIII in every benchmark I've seen to date. 'Course the 1.5Ghz+ 64bit Willamette processor by Intel is due out later this year. Say goodnight :)

9) There is little to no difference between a 7200RPM drive in ATA/66 or UDMA/33 modes. You don't need an ATA/66 controller. Get a hard drive with a big cache and low access times. A 2MB cache is great.

10) There is no difference between EIDE and IDE. Well, there is, but they're used interchangeably today. If people are talking about IDE, they're talking EIDE. If people say ATA, they're talking UDMA and vica-versa. Lot's of acronymal confusion (I think I made a new word).

Anyway, that's a lot of random thought. I started this damn message 2 hours ago and have been running around here like a madman (problems today). So I appologize for its poor organization.

To this day I have yet to hear anyone claim that they could "only get XXX tracks" until they took the leap from IDE to SCSI. What you WILL hear are people saying that they were able to do a lot more after upgrading their processor, or memory...or going from an old-school EIDE drive to a fast 7200RPM drive.

On my sad little system I have yet to be hindered by the hard drive. It's those damn DX effects that suck my processor dry. But 10-15 tracks with 2-3 DX effects each (reverb, compression, and EQ) on a Celery 500 w/64MB and a 5400RPM ATA/66 drive ain't so bad USING n-TRACK!!!! I have no idea where my limit is with better software, and my sad 5400RPM hard drive seems adequate enough to me for the time being. I'm certainly not considering SCSI.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Acronymal confusion!

$7.60/GB!

Man, I love it when you get cranked up.

Yes, yes, I'm gonna print it out and read it again... :)
 
Slack, I think you should create a folder called stock answers and save all your responses there. Then when you need to answer that same question again (you know you will) copy and paste. Then with a little editing you can make it specific to the new question.

Layth
 
Layth - good idea, but then he wouldn't get so cranked up. :)
 
Thanks for the reply Slackmaster (and the new word)

I think the guys have a good idea. There are soooo many of us Newbies out there who need basic info on these issues. Some of the information we get is simply out of date and hasn't caught up with the new technology ie that floating decimal point stuff.

The list of user requirements had me laughing, and it helps put things in perspective.

Thanks again,

Fenderbender
 
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