I want to Know how and where you record your demos

  • Thread starter Thread starter justinmstretch
  • Start date Start date

What do you use to record your demos

  • Software Studio (Pro tool, cubase, logic etc) at home

    Votes: 105 63.3%

  • Hardware DAW (VS1680, AW4416 etc) at home

    Votes: 39 23.5%

  • Hire Project Studio

    Votes: 3 1.8%

  • Use tape based system at home.

    Votes: 19 11.4%
  • Total voters
    166
Where's the art and artist's place in the music business?

-they're a commodity.
Click to expand...

Ouch- you're right, of course.

And I guess it's been true through most of music history.

It just hurts when you finally discover that the man behind the curtain couldn't care less about your little dog. And all he really wants is those ruby slippers.

Yeah, I guess things got a little out of control in the early seventies. Best we keep the talent where it belongs..under control. :) Actually, I love the music business. The stages, the studios, the people, the gear and even the 'machine'! It's just fun to look at the dark side every once in a while.

I've been making fun of Hollywood lately, too. It's funny to look at the REAL environment that's in control of selling us the 'good-people-win-in-the-end' balogna.
 
Reel - criticize you, no I agree with you, well about that previous post of mine anyway. Drunk again, sigh. Anyway, I reread Dennis' post and it makes sense to me now, and I don't need a summary.

Oh, and Reel: "That's why I'm here" was a joke line - it cuts both ways - it also means 'I'm into blarney too'. But you didn't get it, I guess. Not surprised actually. You seem to have a prejudice against me. You're still kinda insulting too. :D

Anyway, Herman said:

"Interesting also to hear the suggestion that 16/44.1 is the 4-track of the future. One thing I would say about that is, while I think a layperson can tell a big difference in sound quality between a 4-track cassette demo and a 16/44.1 demo, I wonder if they can tell a big difference between 16/44.1 and 24/96. Obviously surround sound is another question -- but I find it hard to imagine that in 10 years or so we're all going to think we need surround sound and that it'll become a new listening standard in our homes. I mean, you can't do surround sound with headphones and it also seems to be a ridiculous idea to hook up your car stereo with surround sound, and it seems like that's how a lot of music listening gets done by average folks these days. But maybe I'm way off here. Just throwing out my $.02."

Yeah, I think Herman's right too. I'm changing my opinion of this as people raise different ideas. How about this then: whereas back in the old days the choice was LP or 45, nowadays there's a multiplication of media: there are still people playing vinyl, cassettes, CDs, mp3s, and now DVD-quality stuff up at the top of the heap. So, the question to ask is: how many people are gonna ante up for the high-quality stuff, and how many people are gonna be satisfied with mp3s and CDs? I think Herman got it right - lots of listening environments (cars) and lots of people won't want 24/96 or surround systems. Which means that although pro studios will be the main suppliers of 24/96, it won't be the only (or even the main) game in town.
 
good rooms are very expensive...

I love recording in my tiny little home studio. But what most of you overlook is how much a good room contributes to a sound recording. Recently i recorded in a fellows project studio who has very well designed rooms (nothing spectacular, but well done). his pres are definitely worse than mine (mackie crx), his mics might be the same level. Guess who's recordings sounded better?

And of course, if i wanted to release a cd of my own music and had the budget, iwould always hire an engineer to do the trackin so that i could concentrate on the performance
 
Okay, I went and read that link that Herman posted to recording.org. My impression after reading it is that homerecording doesn't pose much of a threat to the pros, not even in their minds. (Maybe the problem is that there are too many pro studios competing for the available work.)

Here's what one guy says:

"The guys at home with no skills and crap for gear and Digi 001 will eventually be unhappy with the results. They will realize that they need to do something about it. Whether that entails buying high quality gear or hiring an experienced engineer or going to an established large studio to see a master at work, these are all positive things for the industry."

Reel says exactly the same thing in this thread:

"No doubt, home studios and home recording technology has gotten much better over the years, but it takes more than technology to make a great recording. Equipment's not enough, you've got to have a learning aptitude, good ears, and "talent".

Home recording, however, will probably never significantly impact the majors."

This makes a lot of sense to me. But check out that thread and read what two other guys there said - Sjoko and Noel Hartough. Sjoko talks about how smart studios work *with* homers, and Hartough talks about how important personal contacts are in the world of pro studios.

http://www.recording.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=000695&p=3
 
I have just read through this thread and have seen numerous great comments and opinions.......almost all of them valid, IMHO.

Considering the thought and intelligence which seems to be in abundance in this discussion, I will repeat a question asked earlier (BTW, it wasn't answered) and expand on it a bit.

HOW DO WE DEFINE;

A home studio.......A project studio........A pro studio.

What makes one definitively different from the other?

LET THE DISCUSSION COMMENCE...................

:cool:
 
As a sweeping generality, couldn't we say;

Home studios are best suited for song development/rehearsal.

Project studios mainly create demos and media (radio/TV) ads.

Pro Studios create release recordings that are (hopefully) sold
commercially.
 
Musicians revolt

It seems to me that the majority of pro studios are turning to Pro tools. The average project studio can maybe afford a digi 001 but not a full blown Digidesign system. My point is that how many home set ups have a digi 001 or similar setup? Perhaps room design is an issue and maybe there's even the issue that just getting out of the house makes a big difference. The fact that you're paying for studio time makes you use the time more effectively and you focus more. However. on the other side of the coin, how many times have you been in the studio when you have personallity clashes or you don't end up with what you're after because the engineer mixed it how he interpreted the piece AND now you've paid for a heap of shit you don't want.
So many musicians I know now have thier own setups for these reasons and are coming up with good result slowley but surley. Isn't it an inevitibililty that project studios will suffer as the muso get his/her revenge for all that wasted time and money ???
 
Well, I suppose a home studio would be more for hobbiests or song writers trying to craft song ideas and project studios and pro studios the line blurs somewhat. Pro studios are trying to bring in a steady stream of high paying clients for high profile projects where project studios may have paying clients coming in, but that may or may not be their focus. Certainly high quality recording would be, since a lot of project studios are usually stocked with very high end gear and aspiring engineers or at least folks who are passionate about what they're doing. IMHO, a project studio SHOULD be able to do release quality work, not that they all do where a pro studio should guarantee release quality (not that they all do either).
 
justinmstretch:

"...how many times have you been in the studio when you have personallity clashes or you don't end up with what you're after because the engineer mixed it how he interpreted the piece AND now you've paid for a heap of shit you don't want. "

That touches on some of the reasons I've been getting more & more into "home" recording (I actually have all my stuff set up at my band's rehearsal room). Another issue is just that I don't like working in a situation where I look up at the clock and every tick is costing me money and I feel pressure to use the time as efficiently as possible. And it's really awful to spend a lot of time & money in a studio, even a project studio, and be unhappy with the product when it's done. The money and the time are gone and you can never get them back.

But another big reason, one that's ignored by those guys on the recording.org thread, is that I actually enjoy doing the recording. I like spending the time doing it and listening back to it and having as many takes as I want to get it just right and being able to go do it whenever the inspiration strikes. It's fun. I'm not just doing it to be thrifty. It's fun for me to listen to the progress I've made not just as a songwriter & performer but also as an engineer. Very satisfying to have the recordings slowly but surely come out a little clearer every time, and have the songs represented a little better every time.
 
But another big reason, one that's ignored by those guys on the recording.org thread, is that I actually enjoy doing the recording. I like spending the time doing it and listening back to it and having as many takes as I want to get it just right and being able to go do it whenever the inspiration strikes. It's fun.
Click to expand...

Well said.

When you're paying to record in a "pro" studio (as opposed to your own homestudio) , you don't have time to check around for what the engineer is doing: what's the signal chain, is he applying eq during trackdown, "why are you doing that?, "what does this button do??" ;) etc...Since you're paying for the studio time, you usually just focus on playing (that's what you're there for!) and you don't learn anything from a recording point of view, although there is a lot to be learnt from the local engineer.

I'd love to be able to experiment in a project studio, but since I can't afford infinite studio time, I'd rather experiment in my bedroom and learn from my mistakes :)
 
"But another big reason, one that's ignored by those guys on the recording.org thread, is that I actually enjoy doing the recording. I like spending the time doing it and listening back to it and having as many takes as I want to get it just right and being able to go do it whenever the inspiration strikes. It's fun. I'm not just doing it to be thrifty. It's fun for me to listen to the progress I've made not just as a songwriter & performer but also as an engineer. Very satisfying to have the recordings slowly but surely come out a little clearer every time, and have the songs represented a little better every time."

Bingo. Exactly on the money.

And the reason the pros got as good as they are is because of the time they spent doing it. And home recording gives you and me that same opportunity to spend loads of time on it. And not only do the songs get a little better each time, like you say, but we learn as well. Simple and elegant.
 
"And home recording gives you and me that same opportunity to spend loads of time on it. And not only do the songs get a little better each time, like you say, but we learn as well. Simple and elegant."

Yeah, you know, I was thinking about this some more in light of all this discussion, and now I remember when I was a teenager with my first guitar. By the time I knew three chords, I wasn't just sitting around writing songs -- I figured out that if I recorded a guitar part on a crappy tape recorder that just happened to be lying around, and then played that tape back through my dad's stereo, I could play another part along with it, and if I put the tape recorder in the right spot, it would record both parts together. It was fun. Fun to play back the tape and hear both parts together.

Thinking about it now, I really wish I'd saved those tapes! I'm sure they were brimming over with a lot of "analog warmth."
 
So what's the future of home recording?

Are these hardware DAWs going to catch on or not? What do you folks think?
I must admit, up until I bought a half decent Computer (well it's a imac G3 350Mhz) I was seriously considering a Yamaha AW4416. Yet I still don't know which option is cheaper, software or hardware. I think as I've gone for a mac I've automatically chosen the more expensive option for computer recording. But what seems to be happening here is that as software prices plumit, hardware ones plumit even more to remain competitive. I suppose if you're serious about recording you'd get a G4 running pro tools or something with a good sound card and pres. But then again that'll set you back a f*$king fortune, why not get an AW4416 for say just over £1000 and start recording the day you unpack it? Instant studio !! The expansion options aren't too bad either. How about it?
 
I think DAWs are going to be here to stay but i dont see them overtaking the computer for home studios. Computers give more flexibility and more editing abilities. Plus you ad in plug ins and the like and i think you'll find a much more powerfull way to record. However DAWs have thier place too. They are much more simpleto use and require less knowledge and are simpler to use and cheaper. I guess it depends on a range of things such of how much money you have and what you're looking for.
 
Thanks for the swift reply ColdAsh,

Quote "Computers give more flexibility and more editing abilities. Plus you ad in plug ins and the like"

Thanks for the swift reply ColdAsh,

Computers maybe more flexible but what concerns me is the sound quality of the beasts. I mean surley your computer is only as good as the pre amps and sound card you use and as for the computer plug-ins, I tend to not like the sound of most of them, not that I've heard loads. What do you think ?
 
Ok...
I've loosely read through this thread and could quote a number of folks I both agree and disagree with but instead I'll just try to explain my view. Take it for what it's worth cuz that's all it is!

I say:
I couldn't give a damn what the big studios do. I'm not learning to record to make them disappear and if my or anyone else's recording at home makes them disappear...too bad...should have lowered those insane prices, Chief....should've worked a little more personally with the individuals, Guy.

I have been to many big studios and have never left with something I was truely PROUD of. Good stuff, sure...good engineer, yep...nice gear, good songs...yes...and I think so.

But what has always been missing for me is the sense of adventure and experimentation. I like to think I'm a pretty creative guy and I may spend a ton of time getting a song down JUST the way I want it just to take it to some stranger and have to go in, set up, play it, mix it and that's it....that's all I can afford to do. I like getting creative....what would it have been like to distort the snare or sing into a fishbowl or wildly filter some of the drum fills or swing a mic from the ceiling while howling in the nude?!?!?! (well....anyway)

I'm not by any means a true and/or snobby engineer but I'm drinking milk and one day my recordings will kick your ass and take your girl out to dinner only to answer a booty call later and leave her 4 miles outside of town with her makeup all runny and her shirt missing buttons. (or something:D )

The jack is...if ever I get some opportunity to make a record in some million dollar facility, I will have a much better understanding of the process as well as the ability to communicate that understanding. I will also feel comfortable...no locking up when the tape rolls or fearing my saying something dumb might annoy the super genious behind the board. (the truth is I've worked with too many frustrated musicians turned engineers who feel the need to put THEIR stamp on MY work)

As far as the relative term, "quality" goes....
When all your hot shit million dollar producers and spoiled little boy bands make records that move me like those done by the like of Spoon, Jack Drag, Beulah, Quasi, Elliott Smith (who is now back to recording himself), etc...I'll concern myself. Until then, I'm doing what I love, the way I love to....making music with my mind and soul. What else is there? That's why i love this place and TapeOp...people just doing it whether they have a Neve or not.

I hope this is coming off to harsh...I say it all half smiling and I'm not directing towards anyone in particular. I'm just making a point. And frankly, everytime I see some (nice man) like Fletcher or wannabefletcher posting sarcastic scud after sarcastic scud at some poor kid who only wants an intelligent answer, I get mad. It's art, man. It's only rock and roll and I like it. Like it. Yes I do:cool:

Guess I'm venting....

heylow
Rock Jedi/Indie Snob/Probably gonna get yelled at now
www.heylowsoundsystem.net
 
I have Sonar XL and the VS840GX, along with some other pieces of hardware, mixer, drum machine, etc.

I use to play around here but my back and hands have limited my public playing. So far, all I've done is mess around with this stuff, because I knew I'd be moving and didn't want to stop in the middle and move everything.
Now I'm almost done putting my studio, if that's what I can call this room, together.
Then I'll start recording my own songs for my kids and grandkids. This is my main concern. I've mulled around the idea of putting them on one of those 'selling' sites, but I don't want to loose my original plan, for my kids and grandkids. I have a lot of songs I'd like to work on and burn to disk.


Old band members drop by and have said they'd like to have me record some of their stuff, and they'd pay me. None of them hinted for free.
Of course, I live in a depressed part of the state where most folks are one paycheck from poverty, so most of these guys/gals don't own computers or recording equipment.
I'm not interested in going commercial, but I haven't told them that. As soon as I do a few of my own songs and get the hang of all the particulars, up to the point of mastering, then I'll let them in and expand my recording abilities.
I know no one in my area that records. But if I had a studio going for that porpose I could make a few bucks. At least 12 people have ten or more songs. But if anyone were to try to make a living recording in these parts, they's be outta business very soon cuz the $ just ain't here.

I don't want to burn my songs and have them sound like they were homemade, burnt at home, with a bunch of extra noise, weak drums, voice, overpowering guit licks and solos.
I've heard lots of poorly recorded stuff, and I've heard some really excellent sounding stuff done on lesser equipment than I have. It's the doing it, over and over and learning as ya go that, to me, will make a good recording.

Cripes, I forgot what the question was now.....
Oh well.
 
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