I want to Know how and where you record your demos

[A Reel Person]

I don't think home recording detracts from the base of the project or major studios.

Proliferation of home recording has not slowed down the recording industry a bit. There's only a little overlap, I'm sure, probably making a minor, insignificant dent in the viability of the low-end commercial project studio.

Even legitimate Indies can't make a dent in the Major's base, since almost everyone who starts at home, or at an Indie label, will transition to fully professional, big studios, as soon as they possibly can, given the opportunity.

F/I, U2 was an underground/Indie oriented band when it began. Now, where is U2 recording, and where are they signed? Are they recording at home, or signed on an Indie label anymore?

 

[A Reel Person]

Well, there's music, in it's purest sense, and there's the music business.

They overlap, but are not necessarily the same thing.

The purpose of music is basically spiritual, it fulfills a spiritual need in mankind.

The purpose of the music business is to make money, and bring music to the masses, in that order.

Of course, when you get down to the dollars and cents of it, it's a dog-eat-dog world, in the music business, and the top music execs don't care if it's Brittney Spears, Marilyn Manson or Anne Murray, as long as the albums sell.

Home recording, in general, is a personal pursuit, and not necessarily based on dollars and cents, but on an artistic sensibility.

-Fact of the matter is, that despite there being a lot of talented people in the world of home recording, I think that if someone's looking at their songwriting and home recording as a money making pursuit, then they're making a mistake, and utterly fooling themselves, in most cases, including at least 99.99 percent of the people over at MP3com, and other such sites. -I'm not saying they're not talented, I'm just saying there's no money in it, for the vast majority of them [us].

-You know, as usual, that's just my opinion.

-And yes, I do think the Indies will always be the minor leagues to the Majors, like CBS, Warner Bros, Capitol, etc.

-Also, yes, the majors will always hold the cards, until the public's listening and buying habits change, and radio changes, but again, it's a machine, like,... where Brittney Spears, T & A, slick editing and beat box tracks are fed in one end,... and money comes out the other end.

The music business is a machine, and it's primary concern is profit, not art.

Home recording is a totally different scene.

/DA

 

[A Reel Person]

Hey, where'd that guy's post go? Haha.

He deleted it!

Oh well folks, that last post is an answer without a question!

 

[justinmstretch]

Thanx for all the replies folks!

Well its just about 11:30am in England and I didn't expect to get this many threads. Thanx to Queue, drstawl, Big Kahuna, Mikeh, tube dude, Blue Bear sound, Gidge, Track Rat, Sonic Misfit, Dobro (all the way from singapore) Henri devill,Trew and Reel Person. You people really have some valid opinions on this issue.
I think it was Dobro who mensioned DVD 5.1 being the potential Pro - Ametuer divide, however, don't most software and indeed now even hardware DAWs support 5.1 or at least surround in some manner? Also, as a musician myself, I agree with one of you would said that producing and engineering your own stuff actually enhances creativity, bringing the song writing and producing process closer than ever before. I think there are tons of people out there who can produce a hit record from scratch with no help what so ever. Apart from maybe their mum bringing food ocasionally so they don't starve. Keep the threads coming !!!!!!!!

 

[A Reel Person]

Lots of independents and h/r-people may be able to make professional sounding albums,

given some talent, and the right recording technology, and it may have high artistic merit, but it won't have that "machine" behind it, promoting it like toothpaste, and therefore, there will probably not be a huge market share for home and indie recorded music, no matter how good it sounds, or how well written the songs are.

-Home recording and commercial recording will always be out there, coexisting, with not too much overlap, as I see it.

-Sure, you may get the one-in-a-million breakout artist from the homerec or indie scene. You know, it's not impossible, it could happen. Jewel was strumming her guitar on the street, just shortly before she hit the big time in music.

 

[JuSumPilgrim]

Re: Thanx for all the replies folks!

Well its just about 11:30am in England and I didn't expect to get this many threads. Thanx to Queue, drstawl, Big Kahuna, Mikeh, tube dude, Blue Bear sound, Gidge, Track Rat, Sonic Misfit, Dobro (all the way from singapore) Henri devill,Trew and Reel Person. You people really have some valid opinions on this issue.
I think it was Dobro who mensioned DVD 5.1 being the potential Pro - Ametuer divide, however, don't most software and indeed now even hardware DAWs support 5.1 or at least surround in some manner? Also, as a musician myself, I agree with one of you would said that producing and engineering your own stuff actually enhances creativity, bringing the song writing and producing process closer than ever before. I think there are tons of people out there who can produce a hit record from scratch with no help what so ever. Apart from maybe their mum bringing food ocasionally so they don't starve. Keep the threads coming !!!!!!!!

Dobro has a good point but I dont think its going to be as great a divide as all that. Its important to remember when we speak of the project studio that there is a big range of quality just as there is when we speak of a commercial studio. Ive heard mixes done on this board (nay but a few) that are a stones throw away from commercial quality. (Probably more due to performing and writing ability than mixing) The same guys who are doing those mixes are going to upgrade to deal with DVD. The guys in the lower half of project studioland will continue doing what theyre doing now and will be the equivalent to the 4 track I suppose.

In any case, the project studio is here to stay. As was said before, a large percentage of musicians (that Im in contact with anyway) maybe even a majority, dont know what large diaphragm condenser means, they dont have the time, money, interest, inclination, discipline, patience etc to set up their own studio. To think about the converter quality on their cards, to think about the postion of the mic when rec, the best place for a room mic, where to put overheads to avoid phase issues, etc. There is a small segment of the population who has the drive and focus to keep going after being frustrated again and again. To retool and work out the problems until the magic happens.
I run a project studio here in NYC and guys who come here have done their own thing with digital 8 tracks, some guys have done stuff on a DAW and some have done nothing themselves. Its grown considerably in popularity in the last year or so with many return clients and basically alot comes down to your what you offer at what price point. The best project studios offer a serious level of quality at a price point that allows the time necessary for a prof recording. They may not be major label sounding CDs but they certainly rival many mid level studios. Its no secret that most demos done at mid level commercial places suffer as much from bad singing/playing..not getting enough takes in...in addition to lack of mixing skill.
The bottom line is as everyone here knows --recording, producing etc is as much an art as it is a science and the same for writing music. Its both art and science and the lack of knowledge both formal and informal is as great as it ever was. Justinmstretch said something about there being alot of people who are able to make a hit record from scratch. Hahahaha. Thats funny. Someone else said the home studio allows people the chance to reazlie "hey, I can do this too." I think MP3.com is evidence enough of all the little engines that thought they could but couldnt.
Anyway, good mixing skills STILL take long, hard, frustrating days over years to develop to any decent level. Fact is no matter what quality gear is offered at the $200 price point --making it all happen is something that still eludes 95% of home studios bec gear is only part of the equation so in that sense good commercial and project studios will always be here especially as many industry people dont want to hear anything that wasnt professionally recorded.

 

[ColdAsh]

Im setting up a studio to play around with and to record a demo EP for my band. Im going to try to do as much at home as possible but things like recording drums im going to do i a proper studio. I dont wanto to fork out the money on the equipment to track drums. Im also going to hire a few things like a good vocal mic and a good pre amp for a week or so. But i also plan on doing some maxing and mastering in a real studio. So i guess im a bit of both.

 

[dobro]

"Dobro has a good point but I dont think its going to be as great a divide as all that. Its important to remember when we speak of the project studio that there is a big range of quality just as there is when we speak of a commercial studio."

Jusum - I agree. After I'd posted that and was walking down the street thinking about it, it occurred to me what you pointed out - that I've heard some fine mixes on this board, and that skillful homers can really reduce that divide between pro and homer. It mostly comes to down to putting in the time it takes to get the experience, doesn't it?

Question 1: are you gearing up for 5.1 yourself in your studio?

Question 2: what's a project studio actually?

 

[Herman P Willis]

Interesting thread. It comes along at roughly the same time as a related thread on http://www.recording.org, called "Gear means nothing if we can't stay in business." It's in the "Producers, etc." folder, IIRC. Last time I checked it was 2 or 3 pages worth of pro studio owners commiserating about all the business they're losing because of the home recording explosion. I'd post a link to the thread but I believe you have to be registered on the site to read the posts (it's free and well worth the time -- Stephen Paul is one of the moderators, also Fletcher from Mercenary) .

Interesting also to hear the suggestion that 16/44.1 is the 4-track of the future. One thing I would say about that is, while I think a layperson can tell a big difference in sound quality between a 4-track cassette demo and a 16/44.1 demo, I wonder if they can tell a big difference between 16/44.1 and 24/96. Obviously surround sound is another question -- but I find it hard to imagine that in 10 years or so we're all going to think we need surround sound and that it'll become a new listening standard in our homes. I mean, you can't do surround sound with headphones and it also seems to be a ridiculous idea to hook up your car stereo with surround sound, and it seems like that's how a lot of music listening gets done by average folks these days. But maybe I'm way off here. Just throwing out my $.02.

 

[rocky outcrop]

I know what I want

HI there just a few thoughts. I have been playing for 20 years and did my first recording 3 months after I got my first drum kit,that single is now worth 150 dollars(to a collector).Since that I have been in many bands and have recorded many times and have been happy with the results many less times than I would like.Ithink this is due to "producers" with the I know what sounds best i.e we double track the guitars then add some distortion to the snare then flange the piss out of bass. The best results have been with the people who listen to and take notice of what you want and not the :"I wont let anything thet sounds like that leave MY studio" My main band at the moment(I have 5 of them) is signed to warner and they gave us money said we need to get a name producer go to a big studio cause they wanted a hit(they didn't get it)the resulting c.d. was the worst thing that I have ever done and it cost $20,000(Aust) boy were we burned.Since then we have invested ten grand in mics and a roland 1880 & burner and such we have done so far very basic demos and the sound is so much more what we are after . this is using 4 mics 1for bass 1for guit 2for drums with no effects (including compression) of course we all can play quite well and know alot more than before(don't make mistakes learn lessons)there might be naysayers out there who think that pro quality recording cant be done this way but its the preformance and the song writing that counts not where or how you do it .I do think that the vast majority of home users don't have the experience or knowledgeof sounds and how they work to get good results and that is where the at home stuff is a let down. I am alot more wary of studios than I ever was before after being burnt (just cause they got a neve dont mean your gonna sound good)by the way I am not laying all the blame on other people I can be pretty stupid at times but I say bring it on every one should have a home studio and every one should use pro studios and everyone should learn about the sound sprectrum and how every thing sits in it. what I do like about the DAWS is how you can take it anywhere and record in different situations as opposed to the studio environment I'm going to much coffe not enough rock.

 

[Track Rat]

Rocky, my point exactly.

 

[grachus]

home studio and the music

i got into the music scene with the cafe folky stuff and a little bit of rock and roll now but the home studio is my fun play writing machine. i dont have lots of time or money , kids and mortgage, but i love to still write tunes and listen to good sounds. sometimes i get the satisfaction of making it happen in my studio set up at home with the 840ex. the music is really why i record at home to spread out my ideas and to strech my skills as rhythm player lead and bass player . i did do a demo at one time and was fascinated by the recording world the gear the cool rooms the cool gear the cool electric lights flashing and all the smoke hhmm.. but the chance to do it again was unlikely. nobody was signing folky singer songwriters. so the home 4 track became the home 840 which will soon have new preamps monitors and all the toys i can handle... but if i finally get to the point of liking enough of my work ill go to a pro studio to feel pampered and the luxury of the big sound of great gear.

 

[A Reel Person]

They're not signing folky singer songwriters...

...unless you look like Jewel, then they're all over that stuff...

...and I don't blame them.

 

[Jeroleen]

Responding to some thoughts

Particularly, those thoughts of Reel Person. With respect to the idea that home stuidos are not for making money the point, I believe, is mixing apples and oranges. To me, my home studios is, at least the recording part of it, for working out ideas, developing musical thoughs, compositions, techniques, arrangements. It is for experimentation, learning and growing as a musician and producer. I would not expect anything I do in my home stuido to be the be all and end all product. I was fairly active in the music business about fifteen years ago and then, inexplicably, I went off on a tangent. I have since come back. When I was active, I was working with some major players, had some material I wrote both on independant labels and major labels (not much but it was a start) and was begining to expand my playing and production base. Nevertheless, I did very little at home recording, basically 4 track cassette stuff. Having come back into the field, I am faced with the fact that all of my connections etc. have dwindled to nothing. So I am on my own for now. Becuase I can afford to, I have invested in some decent recording equipment. The main point is this, there is no reason why I cannot do what i did before and have some commercial success in the music field thought like everything else in life, there are no guarantees. But, I suffer no delusion that I can play, produce, arrange and plan the music while engineering, mixing and mastering on anything approaching the level I could acheive with professionals who specialize in each relevant field. So the point is, for demos, proabably not much need for project studios in the future. For the end product, specialization with reference to function and musical style will play an important role. I may be able to listen to any type of music and write and play in that mode and style, but to be able to produce a recording on a professional level in any style is beyond mere musicianship. IMHO there will be more work for highly qualified engineers and programmers as more people become profficieent at making music and choose to make thier projects, whether for a major record release or a local cable advertisement, better sounding as a reflection of how they feel about thier creations, not necessarily becuase they could not get away with less.

How's that for babbling on. Blah, blah, blah blather, blither bleep bleum blooooooooooooo recird this buddy...over here with your project studio....

 

[A Reel Person]

"There's no reason I can't make money, and be successful in songwriting".

Hey, that's a great attitude, and I'm not about to say you can't, 'cause what do I know,... you could be the one in 10,000 that breaks big, but IMO the other 9,999 songwriters are fooling themselves.

Have high standards, have goals, and shoot high. There's nothing wrong with that, in any case, whether you have any commercial success or not, in the long run.

I agree, that home studios won't detract from the base of pro studios.

My point, is there's a whole different scene, between home recording and the music business. Home recording is usually just for the music's sake, and the music business is all about making money with music. Of course there's overlap there.

-As far as I can see, most people just have stars in there eyes, when it comes to music. Hey, everyone wants to be a star. I don't know of any act over at mp3com that doesn't think it's star material, but reality is, most aren't. You, of course, might be the exception, 'cause there's an exception to every rule.

No doubt, home studios and home recording technology has gotten much better over the years, but it takes more than technology to make a great recording. Equipment's not enough, you've got to have a learning aptitude, good ears, and "talent".

Home recording, however, will probably never significantly impact the majors.

 

[trew]

He deleted it!

Oh well folks, that last post is an answer without a question!

Yeah, sorry about that. Thanks for answering, though. Look at what you started!

I thought I was getting too far off topic, but judging by what has happened here since then--I guess not..

Cool.

Someone else said the home studio allows people the chance to reazlie "hey, I can do this too." I think MP3.com is evidence enough of all the little engines that thought they could but couldnt.

I said that, and just to clarify, I was talking about those 'little engines that might' who will take it to the next level at a project studio or a nice home studio. That's when they will need people like us with a bit more recording technique and/or equipment. The "hey I can do this" was about writing a song, recording it somehow, maybe even uploading it as you mentioned, but not caring much about recording technique. There are a lot of people with a concept that have something to say, or just want a new way of attracting the opposite sex!

Spiritual fulfillment or hot-date-appeal, whatever the reason, it's pretty cool that there ARE all of these new different levels and facets for so much different cool stuff. Money's fine, but that's the last thing that was on my mind when I started getting into music. Somehow (incredibly), I've managed to retain some of that idealism, and for the most part, us music-types are a pretty cool bunch, but I still say to all of youse out there: "Watch yer backs!!"

 

[A Reel Person]

There are some great, great, wonderful talents in the music industry,...

some on stage, and some behind the scenes. No doubt, there's talent out there in the industry.

There is "art" out there, being made, for sure, but doesn't the commerciality of it all take over, after a while? Then, what's driving what? Is the industry driving music, or is music driving the industry? Where's the art and artist's place in the music business?

-they're a commodity.

 

[atomictoyz]

I would like to add some thoughts here, expanding in the area of DVD-A and DVD Surround 5.1. I have a great interest in doing DVD surround and would love to get into it because it presents me with a challenge, but the cost makes it prohibitive for me. One thing the industry faces is the mass marketability of a high resolution, high cost product which can only be played on expensive specialty players. The burn time of DVD's are relatively slow, the media is expensive and the technology is new. There really isn't an agreement among professionals to what the format should be. The other thing is that the number of talented 5.1ers are far and few in between, just because Nuendo allows you to do it, doesn't mean your good at it. The cost of having the monitoring set up it 2.5 times more, the file space is gigabyte per song and CPU intensive. If you go with analog consoles with flying faders the consoles are quite a bit more than a Mackie 8 bus. I think the May 2001 issue of Mix covers alot of this info more accurately than I can remember on my own. I think the cross over to DVD Audio disks will be slow, with a few filtering into some homies, but the demand for a plain old CD's for under 10 bucks will still be high enough for everybody with semi pro project type studios to thrive. There are cheap ways to make music compared to 10 years ago, and though it might seem there are a waves of bad music, DAW's benefit even big names, allowing them to write and experiment without booking a 6 month block for writing and recording. I like hearing people doing it themselves, I like to do it all myself, just like painting a picture....Me and the Medium... I used to get tired in the studio, walking back and forth between rooms, seeing if what sounded like crap on the headphones actually sounded better on the monitors. Not all studios are setup so you can sit in the control room and play your parts. Im thinking in the back of my head that surround capable DAWs are already in the works at an affordable price...it would be so easy on something like a Mackie HD with a Digital Mixer...on board effects... Blah Blah...
Labels are heading in direction of Duplication Ready demo's from artists seeking employment.

Peace,
Dennis

 

[dobro]

Okay, Dennis, so in 25 words or less, what's your point?

Dennis has a point, I think, but the rest of you are into blarney.

That's why I'm here.

 

[A Reel Person]

Geez, there goes dobro again!

-> Dennis, really good point.
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----->QUOTE: dobro: "that's why I'm here"...

/DA-> dobro, why are you here?

You make no point at all, and talk about 'blarney', YOU are the most uninteresting fool on this board! Get off this thread, you idiot! Don't criticize me, you have nothing inetelligent or positive to say!!

===============