I think little amps sound like crap....or I am open to suggestions.

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mixmkr

mixmkr

we don't need rest!!
I have tried VERY many of these little 15-30watt amps... Marshall, Vox Pathfinder, Roland cube, Pignose, the little Fenders... and even the Crates, etc...
My problem is I can get a recorded sound that I am happy with...even with a POD or a J-station, but I am used to having a decent size amp and pushing a 4x12 cabinet or whatever and I am having a VERY difficult time getting a sound I like LIVE with a small amp. I have even tried hooking up the little amps to my Leslie, Marshall slant, etc. But they still sound like a bee in a paper bag when you start to overdrive them, or just like some shitty DOD fuzz box. Maybe it is the speakers that need to be overdriven too. I remember when the master volume controls started to become in "vogue", and I thought it detrimental to the sound. I am not saying I have to play at 140dB anymore, but how the hell do you get a good sound out of these little amps?

I read people saying stuff like; "my Vox Pathfinder sounds GREAT!! what a deal for under $100"...and stuff along those lines. Granted, the amps ARE inexpensive...hence why I have bought so many of them....so I could experiment, etc. But they all sound "tiny" and really stupid trying to get a decent overdriven sound with them when using them live. For recording, after being able to "muck around" with the sound, slap some chorus on it...double it up, it sounds great.....nevermind the killer sound in the phones.

HELP!!
what does everyone else do?
....and please don't tell me your Roland Blues Cube sounds great. I am just not hearing it...or from other people too. For a big sound you need a big amp.(for playing live) Seems like fighting city hall.
 
"Great" is a relative term. In this BBS you have a pretty wide spectrum of experience, and it's pretty important to evaluate an opinion based on who's giving it.

If, in the end, you have personally tried a lot of little amps and you think they suck, then nobody else's opinion matters anyway. Go with your gut.

I will say that one of the best blues tones I ever captured on tape was from a peavey Classic 20.

Go figure.


A
www.aaroncheney.com
 
Aaron Cheney said:
"Great" is a relative term. In this BBS you have a pretty wide spectrum of experience, and it's pretty important to evaluate an opinion based on who's giving it.

If, in the end, you have personally tried a lot of little amps and you think they suck, then nobody else's opinion matters anyway. Go with your gut.

I will say that one of the best blues tones I ever captured on tape was from a peavey Classic 20.

Go figure.


A
www.aaroncheney.com
Click to expand...

yeah...getting a good sound on tape with the Peavey doesn't supprise me. I have been able to get great sounds with my crappy little Pignose. On tape IS NOT the problem. It's playing live and I don't want to lug a Marshall stack anymore, and besides the people I am playing live with don't want me too either!!! I just want to get a decent sound LIVE with a small amp.
And...the other people I hear using small amps sound the same... a very artificial overdriven sound.

However, I will admit, a Strat thur a nice Deluxe Reverb gets a VERY nice sound....but basically in a "clean" context. I want a little "dirt" in my lead tones, and the tiny amps just make it ear piercing, rather than nice and smoothe.

EDIT>>

the sound I am hearing which I don't really care for is something similar to Steely Dans' lead on "Reelin in the Years". Granted, a nice sound for THAT song (and well played too), it sounds very artificial and NOT like an overdriven amp...but more like a fuzz box. I am looking for something like Deep Purples' "Highway Star" on their live album....or Van Halen.. that'd be ok too!!
 
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I used to have a Peavey Classic 20...great amp. I have mentioned the Roland on here a couple of times. I am not talking about the Roland Blues Cube, but the Roland Cube 15. They also make a Cube 30. Both of these are different from their Blues Cube series. The distortions in my Cube 15 sound cool, they are based on Boss pedals. It has a closed back cab so is sounds much larger than it is.
 
You can always use a big amp with smaller speakers, say 2x12 or 2x15. You can get the big sound at lower overall db.
 
mixmkr said:
I am looking for something like Deep Purples' "Highway Star" on their live album....or Van Halen.. that'd be ok too!!
Click to expand...


If I could get Van Halens' sound that would be ok with me, too. It is tough to get the big sound of a cranked Marshall stack with a little amp. Bigger cabs = bigger sound. Have you tried micing the amp ?
 
MIx, the last years I was gigging on a regular basis, I didn't have a stage amp at all. I was playing through a Rockman straight into the PA. It sounded HUGE. Just a thought.
 
I have heard a lot about these amp modellers, some people swear by them and use them without an amp. They plug into the pa and listen through the monitors. I haven't tried them myself.

I have found that about the minimum amp for a good live sound is 60-80 watts with a min. 12" speaker. There are lots of smaller amps, but I've never been able to get a decent bottom end out of them.

I have a Crate amp I practice with (20 watts I think) and I have done some recording with it, it's not too bad. Of course I NEVER use a line or preamp out into a PA. I have never got a decent sound (live or otherwise) without mic'ing the speaker, and I don't even try anymore.

My favorite gigging amp thus far was a Peavy Bandit 112. This was over ten years ago, but it was extremely versatile. I see the new ones have a lot more features and I haven't tried them, but it's a great little package with plenty of power. Right now I'm experimenting with a Music Man tube amp and a Peavy stereo chorus. Not sure I'm crazy about either, and they're both just a little bigger than I need. Wish I had my old 112 back!
 
I am curious as to why you don't want the big rig, is it the weight thing? or just the hassle? I had the weight thing a couple of years back with my Twin and solved it by chopping the head off so to speak, I took the amp out and put it in a separate head and made a 2x12 openback cabinet using the existing speakers, it solved the weight thing, which is a pain for me, I'm 60, and it tightened up the sound which was an added bonus.
I'm still gigging but find the gear a bit easier than before. I also have another amp as well that is smaller but feed it a signal from the line out of the Twin thru a DI box, sounds like 2 Twins, but you can lift the bastard one handed.
 
How about using 2 or 3 different smaller amps daisy chained together. When i did this i got a really good distortion by only distorting 2 amps and using the 3rd one with a very low overdrive.
 
King Elvis said:
I used to have a Peavey Classic 20...great amp. I have mentioned the Roland on here a couple of times. I am not talking about the Roland Blues Cube, but the Roland Cube 15. They also make a Cube 30. Both of these are different from their Blues Cube series. The distortions in my Cube 15 sound cool, they are based on Boss pedals. It has a closed back cab so is sounds much larger than it is.
Click to expand...
+1 on the Cube. I have a 30 and think it sounds excellent.
 
I generally dislike little amps, too. They nearly always sound way too boxy to me. There are 2 exceptions.

1 is my Pro Jr. But there's a qualifier. Mine is the first year, tweed with the blue alnico speaker. The new ones aren't nearly as good. And whether or not they admit it, I think the circuit or something in it has changed. I actually played several rock shows with the Pro Jr micd up and on an amp stand tilted back at me. And it always sounded awesome. I drove it with a POD sometimes too, and always got a good sound, which was suprising cause in other amps it wouldn't cut for me. The other thing is that it allows you to hook up a speaker cab and I have ran it through a Marshall stack and it sounded really good. It's totally different from all the other Fender amps, even the Blues Jr, despite popular belief they are not the same tone circuit.

The other was a little Matchless amp I used for a while. I can't remember the name but it was green and was a little 1x10 amp, too. It was class A and sang out quite nicely. The Pro Jr had more character for me, though, and sounded more like a real amp in a live situation.

If you can find one of the old ones, get it. The new ones aren't worth the money, IMO. BUT, you will pay more for the old ones than you can get a new one for. Last onen I saw on ebay sold for $450 and new ones are $300. That should tell you something right there.

But nothing sounded as good as my big Valvetronix AD120 or my Marshall. I don't expect a small amp to reproduce that, it just does its own thing.

H2H
 
Oh, and kind of in refrence to your original post. The PJ is a non master amp and you have to crank it up to get the good sound out of it. And it is much much louder than you would think the little guy is cabable of. But there's something to be saie for just a volume and tone control on an amp. Nothing to hide.

H2H
 
You just have'nt tried one of our lil guys yet,.... I think you'll be very amazed at what it sounds like,.....

Red Tolex being ordered this next week,....

and I still have the Vintage JBL 120 12" I am planning on using for it,.... should be ready by the end of March,.. or sooner,.... will let you know....

Steve :D
 
Yo Mixmkr! I'm sorry, but my general response to your post is- Duh! Little amps are great for recording. They make a amall sound in a small space. With a band, I wouldn't gig with less than 100 watts, and 200-300 would be better.
Now my gig is different, and I've adapted. I do a solo act, which is mostly acoustic, but I do whip out an electric for a few songs. For small gigs, I just jack a Vamp II into the PA. For larger gigs, I use the VAMP into a power amp and a Marshall cab. In the old days, I just used the biggest Fender amp I could lay my hands on. I never did play lead, or it would have been a big muckin' Marshall. That was before the days of Mesa, etc.
 
If you like the recorded sound of these small amps, then how do you like the sound of them miced up and run through the mains at a live show, instead of using extension cabinets? I'd think that this method would give you a closer reproduction of what you're hearing when recording and micing these amps.
 
If you're getting the same sound from all of these little amps, I would change mics or preamps.
 
One of the best recorded sounds I ever got was thru a silver face Fender Champ. I dogged the 8" speaker and squeezed a 10" into it, and beefed up the gain stages in it(actually a pretty easy mod). This thing screamed at 8 or 10. Their only like 8 watts or something, but being all tube it sounds more like 25. I gigged with it a little. Sounded killer thru a PA. It was really handy for practice and stages where I needed minimal vol.
BUT.....I've returned to using my JMP 50 watt Marshall and 4x12. It just sounds so good that I don't mind lugging it around. I've got it on wheels and actually find it easier to transport than most of the combos and head/small cab combinations I've used thru the years.( because I don't have to carry it.)
I can still get a great tone from it without blowing anyone off stage.
I go to a local jam night and all these people come in with rack stuff and modeling amps and they always say "Man!... that thing kicks ass!!"
When you find something that works well for you, I say EMBRACE IT!!!!
 
Small tube combos are my favorite way to record. It really depends on the context/genre. I dont do too much crunchy shred music, so maybe thats why i prefer em small.

If you like a natural overdriven sound, I highly suggest snapping up a silverface Princeton or deluxe before they get priced out of your reach.

Also, if you think your sm. combo doesnt sound big enough.......set the combo up about 2 feet from the wall and mic the open back(watch out for phase issues!) as well as the front.

Bottom line? theres no wrong or right way to record an amped guit. but to say sm. combos dont record well is.........................well, its WRONG!
 
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