I think I want a RNP; what interface should I get?

[Chikkinn]

Here's my newbie situation. I'm currently using Cubase 5 and an SE Z3300a. I might be stuck with these for a while, but I'm also using a PV6 USB mixer; this needs replacing. Someday I want racks filled with a nice audio interface, external preamps, a compressor, EQ, effects etc, but I can't afford all that right now. So my priorities are getting an audio interface and an external preamp that I can then use with all that other hardware later. The RNP looks great, but I don't know what interface would compliment it. I'm concerned about the built-in preamps in the interface colouring the audio when really I want that to be down to the RNP. I was hoping you guys could tell me what sort of interface I should look at with a budget of up to £400 (not including the cost of the RNP) and how I'd tackle this problem. An 8 track interface would be a luxury but I can't remember the last time I needed more than 2 tracks so, with my stringent budget, I'd happily consider smaller interfaces. Sorry if I didn't explain something well, thanks for reading!

 

[Steenamaroo]

It sounds like an interface with no preamps at all would be the job for you.
Take a look at the echo audiofire range.

If you want some thing with preamps and line inputs so you can work away immediately and upgrade later, look at some of the bigger tascam US interfaces.

Because their mic inputs and line inputs are on separate input channels you won't have to worry about running preamps in series in the future.

 

[mixsit]

The RNP's very nice for its rather lack of color- as compression goes. Compression as an effect can be called 'color, but there is typically a divide in and around the descriptions.
Another tack is to go with a pre that can give some flavor, or be driven up into more or less of it for example.

 

[Chili]

The RNP's very nice for its rather lack of color- as compression goes. Compression as an effect can be called 'color, but there is typically a divide in and around the descriptions.

I think you're thinking of the RNC's, I think!! And it's "Really Nice", not "Very Nice", otherwise it would be called VNP's. Just kidding...

 

[mixsit]

I think you're thinking of the RNC's, I think!! And it's "Really Nice", not "Very Nice", otherwise it would be called VNP's. Just kidding...

Damn right. Sorry good call

 

[wheelema]

Here's my newbie situation. I'm currently using Cubase 5 and an SE Z3300a. I might be stuck with these for a while, but I'm also using a PV6 USB mixer; this needs replacing. Someday I want racks filled with a nice audio interface, external preamps, a compressor, EQ, effects etc, but I can't afford all that right now. So my priorities are getting an audio interface and an external preamp that I can then use with all that other hardware later. The RNP looks great, but I don't know what interface would compliment it. I'm concerned about the built-in preamps in the interface colouring the audio when really I want that to be down to the RNP. I was hoping you guys could tell me what sort of interface I should look at with a budget of up to £400 (not including the cost of the RNP) and how I'd tackle this problem. An 8 track interface would be a luxury but I can't remember the last time I needed more than 2 tracks so, with my stringent budget, I'd happily consider smaller interfaces. Sorry if I didn't explain something well, thanks for reading!

Your total outlay for the theoretical interface and RNP would be £694.5 (£294.5 for the FMR RNP + £400). Given that the attraction of the FMR RNP is 60db of clean uncolored gain there are several highly regarded all-in-one (preamp, A/D/A converters, etc.) that fall well within your budget, offer the same functionality as the RNP, and additional features that you may find very valuable.

The RME Babyface with 60db of clean gain comes in at £430.28 and the Sound Devices USBPre 2 with 60db of clean gain comes in at £526.38. Both have superb preamps and A/D/A converters. In the interest of full disclosure note that I own a USBPre 2.

Luck.

 

[mixsit]

Your total outlay for the theoretical interface and RNP would be £694.5 (£294.5 for the FMR RNP + £400). Given that the attraction of the FMR RNP is 60db of clean uncolored gain there are several highly regarded all-in-one (preamp, A/D/A converters, etc.) that fall well within your budget, offer the same functionality as the RNP, and additional features that you may find very valuable.

The RME Babyface with 60db of clean gain comes in at £430.28 and the Sound Devices USBPre 2 with 60db of clean gain comes in at £526.38. Both have superb preamps and A/D/A converters. In the interest of full disclosure note that I own a USBPre 2.

Luck.

..Inserts?

.. So my priorities are getting an audio interface and an external preamp that I can then use with all that other hardware later. ...

One of the often down sides' to watch for going in the direction of 'all in one combo stuff.

 

[Chikkinn]

Thanks for your help guys! You mentioned that with separate mic/line in inputs I won't have to worry about chaining preamps (if I use the line in, I assume), so I think that'll be the way I go. Those inserts above look great and have a more appealing price tag but I'm worried about how I'll integrate them into my future setup. I guess my approach from here will be to look for any 8 track interface with separate mic and line in input channels. Sorry for the stupid question, but would interfaces with combi inputs fall into this category? Also, what's the difference between a mic/inst and mic/line combi input?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Steenamaroo]

No, That's the point.

Something like a firepod has 8 channels which can take mic or line level.
Something like a US1800 has 16 channels, 8 of which are mic - 6 of which are line.

With combo inputs it's a gamble. I guess some are designed to true bypass, but you can't count on it.

Presonus firestudio mobile has 2 mic preamps and 6 line inputs. Maybe worth a look?

 

[Chikkinn]

No, That's the point.

Something like a firepod has 8 channels which can take mic or line level.
Something like a US1800 has 16 channels, 8 of which are mic - 6 of which are line.

With combo inputs it's a gamble. I guess some are designed to true bypass, but you can't count on it.

Presonus firestudio mobile has 2 mic preamps and 6 line inputs. Maybe worth a look?

Ah cool, that's what I'd assumed but I thought it'd be safe to ask. I'm liking the look of the US1800 and that firestudio mobile looks pretty nice, I guess I'll think about how important the extra inputs will be for me in the future and choose between those two. Cheers mate!

 

[ecc83]

Hi Chikkinn,
Just a few observations...Not arguing with anyone you understand!

First off the SE looks a pretty good, mid priced LDC and it is generally said that pre amps have little effect on high output, transformerless capacitor mics, dynamics and ribbons more so (this assumes you don't want a pre amp to "grunge things up", different issue IMHO and there are better ways to do that) so I do not think a dedicated pre amp is going to be any better than a good AI.

Focusrite have always had good rep for their AI mic amps but I am (suprise, suprise!) going to suggest the NI Ka6. Two very clean mic/line/instr* inputs but also two more separate line inputs (it can record 4 discrete channels. Six if you count S/PDIF) where you could connect a future boooteek pre. You say you only need 2 channels at the moment? Unless you have more than two hands or mates, 4 (6) should do ya for now?

*A combo mic/line input would be mic, balanced, high sensitivity and an input Z of about 1.5kOhms. The line input would usually also be balanced and 20dB less sensitive and Zin around 20k balanced, 10k unbalanced but this can vary upward greatly. An instrument input would be unbalanced and Zin ideally 1meg Ohm but they are often lower than this (to no great harm in fact). Since combo line inputs are almost always just the mic circuit padded down it is a bit pointless putting a $500 mic pre thru a $2 mic chip! Tho' in practice I doubt anyone can tell.

Were I you I would go for a fairly basic setup now and if you REALLY feel the need for more tracks save up for a real doozy, RME, MOTU e.g. or a very good AI with ADAT.

As I said at the top, just my take on the situation.
Dave.

 

[Steenamaroo]

That's good info!

BTW, what was the talk of inserts earlier? Perhaps I missed something.

Do you need inserts or was it a terminology mixup?

 

[wheelema]

That's good info!

BTW, what was the talk of inserts earlier? Perhaps I missed something.

Do you need inserts or was it a terminology mixup?

Send/Receive inserts are used by inline hardware based discreet components such as a FMR RNC (a compressor) to tweak/impact the audio signal. Whether or not you need them is largely based on philosophy... a old-school recording purist will say yes, but insofar as I'm aware anything that you can do with hardware you can now do with software.

I suspect that you're beginning to appreciate the bewildering variety of choices in the recording marketplace but you do get what you pay for.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Send/Receive inserts are used by inline hardware based discreet components such as a FMR RNC (a compressor) to tweak/impact the audio signal. I suspect that you're beginning to appreciate the bewildering variety of choices in the recording marketplace.

I know that, but thanks.

Mixsit just said "inserts?" and the OP said "those inserts above look great"
I wondered if he didn't understand.

If he's planning to patch mic pre - processors - interface, then he wont need inserts.

 

[wheelema]

No, That's the point.

Something like a firepod has 8 channels which can take mic or line level.
Something like a US1800 has 16 channels, 8 of which are mic - 6 of which are line.

With combo inputs it's a gamble. I guess some are designed to true bypass, but you can't count on it.

Presonus firestudio mobile has 2 mic preamps and 6 line inputs. Maybe worth a look?

Assuming you're talking about an input that can be mic level or line level the only difference is signal attenuation or a 'pad' (a means of reducing the signal strength). Pads can be introduced into the signal chain by a integrated circuit such as is incorporated in the Sound Devices USBPre 2 or by a separate hardware device like the Shure A15AS which provides 15 to 25 db of selectable attenuation.

For what it's worth, the USBPre 2 (not pimping the gear, just for illustration) has two pads in the signal chain. On the output side one takes the signal from line level to mic level (I finally figured out why), and the other on the input side drops it 15db further if needed. Kind of a integrated A15AS.

 

[Steenamaroo]

I get what you're saying and you're right, but if the OP wants to build up standalone pres and processors, why would he have that unnecessary pad and amplifier in his path.
He may as well just buy an interface with line inputs and keep everything clean and simple.

With regard to inserts, I don't know if the OP wants/needs them, but if he does my recommendations are no good.
That's why I was asking.

 

[wheelema]

I know that, but thanks.

Mixsit just said "inserts?" and the OP said "those inserts above look great"
I wondered if he didn't understand.

If he's planning to patch mic pre - processors - interface, then he wont need inserts.

I apologize. Sometimes I don't pay attention to whom I'm replying. It's good info in any event.

 

[Steenamaroo]

No need. I half wondered if it was for the OPs benefit anyway.
Good info indeed.

 

[mixsit]

I was just cautioning that if you go pre-a/d-interface combo that doe not have a direct line path to the a/d you've boxed yourself in in that regard.

It wouldn't be too surprising as well if some units did mic and line through the same padded or variable gain stage. It's done a lot in mixers. Not to say I think it's an indicator of quality either BTW-
(out'a my pay grade

 

[Chikkinn]

Hi Chikkinn,
Just a few observations...Not arguing with anyone you understand!

First off the SE looks a pretty good, mid priced LDC and it is generally said that pre amps have little effect on high output, transformerless capacitor mics, dynamics and ribbons more so (this assumes you don't want a pre amp to "grunge things up", different issue IMHO and there are better ways to do that) so I do not think a dedicated pre amp is going to be any better than a good AI.

Focusrite have always had good rep for their AI mic amps but I am (suprise, suprise!) going to suggest the NI Ka6. Two very clean mic/line/instr* inputs but also two more separate line inputs (it can record 4 discrete channels. Six if you count S/PDIF) where you could connect a future boooteek pre. You say you only need 2 channels at the moment? Unless you have more than two hands or mates, 4 (6) should do ya for now?

*A combo mic/line input would be mic, balanced, high sensitivity and an input Z of about 1.5kOhms. The line input would usually also be balanced and 20dB less sensitive and Zin around 20k balanced, 10k unbalanced but this can vary upward greatly. An instrument input would be unbalanced and Zin ideally 1meg Ohm but they are often lower than this (to no great harm in fact). Since combo line inputs are almost always just the mic circuit padded down it is a bit pointless putting a $500 mic pre thru a $2 mic chip! Tho' in practice I doubt anyone can tell.

Were I you I would go for a fairly basic setup now and if you REALLY feel the need for more tracks save up for a real doozy, RME, MOTU e.g. or a very good AI with ADAT.

As I said at the top, just my take on the situation.
Dave.

Glad to hear I won't be held back too much by my mic, to be honest I'd just assumed a dedicated preamp was always a good thing! The Ka6 looks nice; will it record higher quality audio than a tascam US1800 (I dont know if the US1800 qualifies as a "good" AI in your opinion)? I know the tascam's more expensive, but someday it might be beneficial to have more in and outputs and, if the quality of the recording is the same I would pay the extra money right now. But I'm prioritising recording quality over everything and, for the next year or two, the Ka6 has all the channels I need. Thank you!

That's good info!

BTW, what was the talk of inserts earlier? Perhaps I missed something.

Do you need inserts or was it a terminology mixup?

Just a terminology mixup, I think I misinterpreted the post above. Sorry!