I really hate to repost . . . but . . . .

  • Thread starter Thread starter nate_dennis
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nate_dennis

nate_dennis

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I posted this in the "recording techniques" but no one answered. So maybe you guys can help.

Is there any reason a guitar pedal, or MFX processor, can't be used in the FX loop of my 488mkII? I'm trying to decide if I can get rid of my picoverb since my MFX has some nice lexicon reverbs, etc. Thanks for the help.


-Nate
 
well there's no reason it can't,

but there may be some reasons you don't want to

the inputs for guitar based effects and pedals are designed to take a signal with the electrical impedance of a signal coming from a guitar.

sending a line level source into such a unit will most likely give you a lot of noise which would be undesirable, some fx units can take line level sources... best to check with your manuals.
 
Most likely you can't use it. You could probably insert directly into a pre-recorded signal but not mix it with a live signal. It creates a loop. The why of that I haven't figured out yet. You'll probably wind up with an immediate horrible squealing feedback. I tried this once with my POD. Is a modeling foot pedal?
 
SteveM said:
Most likely you can't use it. You could probably insert directly into a pre-recorded signal but not mix it with a live signal. It creates a loop. The why of that I haven't figured out yet. You'll probably wind up with an immediate horrible squealing feedback. I tried this once with my POD. Is a modeling foot pedal?
Click to expand...

This is on the same machine Steve?

My understanding is that there are two types of effects loops.

There are standard, and parallel.

The parallel will actually blend the wet and dry signal, and in the case of drive and gain based effects would create a feedback issue, however it should be allright to use reverb delays chorus etc.

The standard will keep the wet and dry separate from each other so you would not have issues on this type of loop.
 
Based on my understanding of "Standard" and "Parrallel" loops the 488mkII has a parrallel loop. Here are the input/output specs on my MFX unit. (BTW It is a digitech RP500 that I got a while ago before I really knew what I needed/wanted.)

1. Input
High impedance 1/4” instrument input.

2. Amp/Mixer Switch
This switch optimizes the 1/4” Line Outputs for connecting to either a guitar amp system or
directly into the inputs of a mixer.

3. 1/4” Line Outputs
These 1/4” outputs can be plugged into a guitar amplifier or into inputs of a mixer or recording
device. The front panel Master Level controls the level of these outputs.

Thanks for the help guys.
 
give it a shot, test it out and see how it works.

Looks like your fx unit doesn't have an option to take a line level source so I think you'll probably introduce more noise into the signal chain then you would like but hey maybe not:)

If your effects loops are parallel just make sure your not adding gain to the signal and hopefully you'll avoid any feedback issues.

let us know how it works out for ya
 
I think you may also have an issue with the output impedance of a guitar effect many of which is designed for a fairly high impedance amp input (the amp expecting a 1Meg or so guitar pickup) which can load the input of your gear. A direct box might help in that regard.
 
his unit does have a line out though... so he should be fine in terms of output impedance as long as he has the line outs going into the 488

edit: it actually looks like it is one set of outputs, so to avoid this he just has to have the switch set to MIXER and that should create the correct impedance
 
I know that I'm completely dense right now, and I'm really sorry. So, since the effects loop is parallel reverbs and delays should be fine. Tone changing effects are a no go (ie, trem, flange, dist.) Just use the effects out of the 488 into the digitech and back into the effects return with the switch on the digi set to "mixer? right? The output of the 488 and the input of the digi are compatible? (or is that even a concern?) I do appreciate all the help.


I know "just try it" is a good response here, but more than "will it work" I am trying to grasp why. Thank you all so much for your patience. This week will be my first big recording project since I've started getting gear and learning so I'm really looking forward to a week of nothing but recording music. Thanks again.
 
You had originally also asked about a guitar pedal, and that's what I've had experience with, so I'll chirp in.

I know this is supposed to be a "no-no," but I've done this with good results before. My friend and I wanted to add flange to his vocal, so we used his boss flanger pedal because we didn't have a rackmount processor that had flanging.

I can't remember if we sent it through an effects loop or used it with an insert. Hmmm.

Sounded fine though --- not noisy or anything.
 
Word! I'll give it a shot. I think it should work, mostly for reverb and delay, but I may get crazy! Thanks guys!!!
 
I think you're right. I never stopped to figure out how to do that though. The second one you mentioned. I need to get a better understanding of it.



DuddyGuy said:
This is on the same machine Steve?

My understanding is that there are two types of effects loops.

There are standard, and parallel.

The parallel will actually blend the wet and dry signal, and in the case of drive and gain based effects would create a feedback issue, however it should be allright to use reverb delays chorus etc.

The standard will keep the wet and dry separate from each other so you would not have issues on this type of loop.
Click to expand...
 
SteveM said:
Most likely you can't use it. You could probably insert directly into a pre-recorded signal but not mix it with a live signal. It creates a loop. The why of that I haven't figured out yet. You'll probably wind up with an immediate horrible squealing feedback. I tried this once with my POD. Is a modeling foot pedal?
Click to expand...

Given the caveat that I don't actually have experience with this particular unit, I think that using that guitar effects unit in the effects send/return would not create a loop, since the returns go to the buss and don't feed back into the effects send. However, the previous poster was correct that the guitar processor has a higher input impedance and noise could be an issue, though tape noise may be much higher. Still, if you had some kind of "reamping" device, it would be good to try it out. You might also need to exercise care not to overload the guitar processor input.

Their is an additional caveat: since the guitar processor is a serial processor, running through the effects send/return system (a parallel processing system) may create some ugly phase cancellations, especially if the guitar processor inverts the signal (which is not uncommon), unless it has settings that give effects only and eliminate the original signal.

Cheers,

Otto
 
Last edited:
To follow up:

It will generally work better to use "serial" processors (where the original signal appears in the output such as chorus, phaser, flange, etc.) inline with individual channel inputs or via channel inserts (or inline on the stereo buss) while "parallel processors" such as delay and reverb work well set to "wet" or "effect only" and patched in to an effects send/return.

Cheers,

Otto
 
Hey Nate,

I have been doing more or less what you're suggesting for years with varying results. Not owning any rackmount type effects units, I use a multi-fx guitar pedal for all my mixes.

I have a tascam 688 and during mixdown, I run the AUX out into the input on a digitech RP150, then the L & R outputs of the RP150 go into the 2 stereo AUX returns on the tascam. I set the output to "mixer" on the pedal, and it does work.

I used to use an Alesis multi-FX pedal for this purpose. It had some great effects, but added a lot of noise. The digitech is much, much quieter, but merely having it in the signal path definitely colors the sound in a way that I don't particularly like...I've often wondered if having dedicated extrnal effects units might sound markedly better..?

So, what you propose should work fine and it is easy to set up. Signal strength shouldn't be an issue, but the quality of the sound may not be as great as one would hope...
 
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