I need tips for recording a 5 piece garage/punk/western band using only 6 mics.

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myurbanodyssey

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Wait, I mean a 4 piece band. Sorry!

This will be my first time recording a band, so I need a little help deciding what to mic, where to mic, and whatever else I should consider for getting this right.

This band has a very aggressive sound, and I really want to stay true to that in the recordings. We agreed on recording direct, in one-take, for that "live" feel. They're well-rehearsed, and they really like one-off recordings, so I'm not worried about sounding too "nice," or about getting caught-up in overdubs and whatnot. I just need to capture the intensity and still have a little room to tweak the sound.

The location:

We're recording in a local art space (my preference.) A while back I recorded a live show of their's in mono, and just I loved the sound of this space, and they really fill it. The live recording was great with just a cardiod condenser, but I'm going strictly dynamic this time around.

The Recording Equipment:

-1402vlz Mackie (I'm limited to 6 mics with this.)

-Tascam 238 Syncaset (It can record up to 8 tracks.)

-Shure 51 for vocals (The vocalist is female and has that Janis Joplin thing going on, and she's very good. The band is western, punk, and grungy. I think this will work nicely, but you may not.) I'm hoping the preamps on my Mackie will be enough for this thing. Though, I have a feeling some of you will frown at this.

-4 Shure sm57s

-1 Shure 58 (Now, I could just bum another 57 off a friend, but could I use the 58 as a decent instrument mic? Any wisdom?)

-All the other basics (cables, pop screen, blah, blah, blah...)

Okay, The Band (It's pretty standard):

-Vocalist/Rhythm Guitar

-Bassist

-Drummer

-Lead guitar


The Band's Equipment:

-The vocalist/rhythm guitarist plays through a Fender Twin Reverb Deluxe amp

-The lead guitarist uses a Line 6 Spider 2, with some minimal effects, mostly light distortion, screeching feedback, high-riding kind of stuff.

-The bassist uses a Ampeg 150w amp, if that's even important.

-The Drummer has your basic setup: snare, hi-hat, tom, a ride, a crash, a bass, sticks...

And now, Mic Placement!

-I know I'll need to mic each instrument, but I don't want to mic too close, and I really need tips on avoinding the bleeding from these loud amps, but I'm a little hung-up on how to mic the drums; Should I use two overhead mics, or should I go with one overhead and one on the bass? How to mic everything else seems pretty obvious, but how far do you guys think should I place the mics from the sources?

*My goal is to get the recording sounding really "full". Any tips will help!

Sorry this was so winded, guys.

Again, thanks!

Steven
 
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I would put a couple of mics over the drums and one on the kick. let guitars and bass take up the other 3 channels....then over dub vocas....but if you dont want to overdub anything and still want to be able to mic everything...get a larger mixer...

also move your guitar amps as far from the drums as possible to minimize bleed....
 
I would set up the drums in the back middle and a guitar on each side, and bass on the side with rhythm. do an sm57 on each guitar about 4 feet away and pann those hard left and right, then do a sm57 on the kick (center) 58 on the snare (center), and sm57 on the bass guitar (center) and the 51 on vocals (center).

I know your thinking why the 58 on snare? I actually really like 58's on snares.

Good Luck
 
Cool, AM, but will the 58 on the snare pick up enough of the overhead?
 
fun challenge!

here's my suggestion.

sure 57 over the kit. (no good cymbal mics here)

57 on kick

58 on singer (same mic as the 57, but with a pop filter built in)

57 on git and bass.

have the band in a circle facing one another to reduce bleed by having the null of each mic facing as much of the room as possible.

bleed will happen, resign yourself to it now, or be disappointed later.
use the 51 for a talk back. or as a pill, or something.
 
If you have a couple condensers, then use them as overheads on the kit, and shove at 57 in the bass drum. Snare will bleed into the overheads and sound fine. Record the bass direct to the recorder, which frees up a channel on your mixer. Shove 57s in front of the guitar amps, and then use either a 57 or the 58 on vocals. That's six mics, and a direct in. Keep the guitars away from the drumset, and the vocalist away from everything else.
 
oh, yea di the bass.
i had my head in the "these mic's to use" hole and overlooked just running the bass straight in.
that's probably a good bet.
 
and you could di that line 6 amp, the speakers are really nothing special in those amps so you could get away with it.
 
I'd have to argue that even though the line 6 may not sound great, it'll sound worse just DI'd. But you can try it and see if it works, i suppose.
 
I'm afraid I'll lose depth if I DI anything. I'm more set on getting things sounding good right off, like most everyone here is, so I need to rely more on good mic placement. I think I'm going to contact the drummer and just meet with her, spend some time experimenting to capture the sounds I want, and probably do that with each member before the big day. This revelation doesn't mean that I don't need more of your awesome tips though!

Also, would it really be a sin if I floated one mic on the overhead (not too far to have phase problems, but not too close to lose the "largeness") and one mic on the kick? Just a thought.

It's a little on the obscure side for referencing, but the recording of Hazel's "Mr. Magazine Man" off the Kill Rock Stars Drinking From Puddles radio comp is sort of the sound I'm going for. The band's have a similar feel to me. I think you can hear samples on Itunes, which was a surprise to me. Maybe one of you can take a quick listen and see what I mean.

Oh, and you can hear some of the recordings I made at that live show (the one where I used just one condenser) to see what the band sounds like. But I can't say much for the sound quality with MySpace's low bit rate standards:

Myspace.com
Bandname: Gunsafe

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!
 
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ah, you've come to the right place my friend! it just so happens i've done a fair amount of this type of recording. i'ts actually my favorite way to record.

you left out one verrry important ingredient: the room! what's the room like you're recording in?

see, it's going to be vital how you set up the musicians. your biggest nightmare as far as bleed are going to be the drums. so you want to set them up ideally in an adjacent room, if possible, if not in a corner, as far away from the other musicians as feasible and practical.

as far as mics you obviously don't have a whole lot of choices. your SM57's will work fine for most anything. if at all possible i'd try to beg, borrow or steal ( not really steal) a halfway decent condenser mike. at least ONE, which you would use as a drum overhead.

better would be two, you could use those as stereo room mikes. in that case you may very well find yourself not needing a drum mic at all. in fact you would use your mics more as 'spot' mikes and may even find that you don't really need all of them.

then again, you only have 8 tracks, right? so a pair of stereo mikes may be a luxury you can't afford.

as far as bleed, the neat thing about sm57's is that they're pretty unidirectional and if you angle the amps away from each other you'd be amazed at how little bleed you get. but of course don't forget: bleed is your friend! a little bleed will get you more of that 'live' sound( too much will turn your recording to mud)

try setting up gobos or some type of sound blocking around the drums, but leave them low enough so the drummer can still make eye contact with the other band members. you'll still get plenty of leakage but not so much as to ruin the recording.

the singer will probably present your biggest problem. try putting her in another room if at all possible. leakage in her vocal mic will drive you nuts when mixing so you need to adress that as best as possible.

one last tip: i would definitely recommend using a direct out on the bass amp if there is one. an sm57 or 58 probably just won't give you enough low end. ideal is a combination of mic and direct out. if you don't have enough tracks, submix them to one track. just make sure you do a decent submix.

good luck!
 
home recording studio advice needed...

I recently started a new set-up from my home. Its really remedial and doesnt have the good quality. For one, im using "audacity" recording software, which is free. In the past, i have used adobe audition and magix. I mostly need help with how to record. (ive also used cakewalk and pro-tools at a friends, i have found pro-tools to be the best, but also most expensive.)

I have a mic plugged into the mic jack of the computer through a small two channel mixer i bought. (Behringer Xenyx 802) The mic (three pronged) is plugged directly in to the mixer's first channel, and a chord is connected from the mixers earphone to the computers(PC) mic jack, due to an adapter.

I record straight into my Samson R21 (dynamic mic), and that's that.
At the moment, i record drums, guitar, and vocals. everything comes out with much hiss/distortion, but sometimes is bearable. either way, i need better techniques to record. money is somewhat of a handicap, but i am willing to spend a good amount.

thanks for your time!
 
I Don't KNOW...GET OUTTA HERE & START YOUR OWN THREAD IN THE APPROPRIATE PLACE.
You'l get a bad reputation multiple posting the same quation in all the wrong forums in in other people's threads.
Be a nice person, go to Newbies, ssearch for the imfo you want & if it's not available (&it is) start your own thread.
PLEASE.
 
Great advice, Tremolo. I think I like the large condenser on the overhead idea. There's some time before I get the band together to record, so I'm going to get with some of the musicians, mainly the drummer and vocalist, to test mic placement and experiment with levels.

You guys are great!:):)
 
...................................
 
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new guy ...

(I've only had two Audio Studio Classes, and I'm still in the process building a better home studio.... I'm still at the bottom rung of the ladder, so I'm not a pro yet... glad that's out of the way)

Just wanted to point out that you can use more than 6 mics on the 1402VLZ.
Go to radio shack and get a few XLR to Balanced 1/4 inch Phone Jack cables, and you can utilize some of those quarter inch Jacks. (until the next upgrade you have to find solutions to maximize your board's utility.)

I've found when you're on a budget, you have to come up with inventive ways of getting more out of what you got. (Mostly I've learned this from my computer Guru friends who can keep a computer running with gum, rubber bands, and spit.)

hope this was helpful.
 
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