I need some serious HELP!!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter frist44
  • Start date Start date
Hey, I've had some pretty good results. I've been using an AKG C1000 mic. But what I do is I record the acoustic guitar in a bathroom. The acoustics in the bathroom add to the sound. At least I think so. Also, if you get too much boxiness, try put the mic higher on the fretts. Is that what you call it? Basically, position the mic away from the hole of the guitar. Move it higher up on the fretts. I hope this helps.

Let me know.

Ro
 
With out getting to crazy, try this: Go to a single mic about 12-14" away from the sound whole. This will give you the big boomy sound most people like, but you will loose a little detail unless your using a top notch mic. Record this tone and during mix turn it into a stereo track with a very quick delay or slight chorus on the second channel. EQ one slightly brighter then the other. OR what I do is roll off some mid to highs on one and roll off some low to mids on the other. Make them compliment each other.

Sorry I'm not framiliar with your setup and software but try the above and see what happens. Also did you try a combination of your two different mic's as opposed to a pair of the same?
 
Joe E said:
Record this tone and during mix turn it into a stereo track with a very quick delay or slight chorus on the second channel. EQ one slightly brighter then the other.
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If you do that, the guitar will disappear when summed to mono by some radio and TV stations. I'm not sure I'd want my mix to be in their hands.
 
As long as he delays one side by a few miliseconds he will be fine... (And I don't mean the effect called delay, I mean actually sliding the right guitar track out of whack a few MS)..

Joe
 
frist - it's the guitar. It sounds a lot like my alvarez. Not a bad guitar...but, what you are getting isn't a bad sound. It could certainly work in a mix (or on its own...to a degree).

But, my radio shack dynamic pointed right at the soundhole of my Taylor sounds fuller - its the guitar.

But, EQ is very important. Guitat cabinets sound different on cd than they do in real life...so do guitars. We arn't used to hearing guitars in a stereo spread...etc. So, EQ has to change what it sounds like to what it "should" sound like...or...what sounds "good".

I am not great at EQing acoustic guitar tracks..mine always end up sounding too "open". But...at any rate...I think the tracks you have are pretty workable....

Could you give us an idea of what sound you are going for? Want to sound like Dave Matthews? Or..what...?

But, i am pretty confident that the sound you are picking up is doing justice to the guitar. decent guitar, decent sound.
 
Joe E said:
If you read my post above and feel I need not post my experiences like the other gentlemen, your welcome to say so. Trust me my time is limited and I'd rather be at the studio anyway. Your call on weather I post again or not. I am hoping to find a nice place to share thoughts on recording.

Joe
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Joe - I think you took the newbie thread you read way out of context. I have a pretty good idea of the thread you might be referring to. And..in that case, I think it was based on some ongoing "problems" (basically bs) around here involving the idea that people might be signing up new users just to brag about products.

What you offered was solid recording advice and I have NEVER heard of anyone being called anything but great for that. Welcome to the BBS...and I think this is the place you are looking for. Lots of knowledgeable people here.

Like anything - there are going to be a few that want to cause problems - but believe me...they will do this over stupid personal things...or brand endorsement - the kind of advice you offered is invaluable to this board, and I hope you stick around.

As you can see...I'm a newbie here myself really...but, I already feel very welcome. Nice to have you.

-Wes
 
The only reason I have not attempted to eq any of it is because of clips like this. This is a clip of 2 ecm8000s guardian posted a little while ago. There's no eq or compresson. Just straight ecm8000 to mackie mic pres.



This is my idea of a good guitar sound. If i could even come close to that i would be the happiest person around. i won't even post the clips with the tlm103 because those make mouth water every time i hear them. And before i know it i'll be dishing out $700 and not be able to pay rent next month.

Here's the original clip again just so you don't have to go back.



The big difference between the two is that the ecm8000's are alot smoother. I know some people say yeah, that's because they're different mics. but believe me i have the ecm8000s also and the clip i got is no different than the mxl603s. I just want that smooth sound. it just sounds like mine is real harsh with alot of midrange and attack. I don't know. Maybe i'm just hoping too much for this guitar. Hopefully i can get my hands on a nicer guitar soon and test this theory.

Brandon
 
Voxvendor,
yeah maybe I should have made that a little more clear. THe second signal must be a dup of the first slid out a milisecond or two. You should still be able to do this with a FX box though. Original signal panned hard left and only the delay signal panned hard right. You don't want the orignal note in the right pan only the delayed note. Then EQ to choice. Hey this has turned out to be a pretty good discusion.

Harvey,
What would the phase cancellation be on a summed mono play-back of a chorus or detuned (a few cents) source panned stereo? THey are not the exact same source but very close. Would I still get phase cancellation on mono play back? If so how about reverseing the palarity of one?
 
Sorry, Joe, I wasn't too clear on that point. Some cancelation on chorusing when summed to mono (mostly, the chorusing effect disappears), but mainly, I was referring to the idea of adding a slight delay to a second identical track. Until you get past about 20 ms, the cancellation in mono can be almost total, or it becomes comb filtering. Reversing the phase of one channel simply inverts the comb filtering, but it doesn't go away.

Sorry about my confusing first statement. On the other hand, getting summed to mono doesn't happen all that often and if the guitars are wide panned, you can go for it, and it may really sound good.

Just pray they don't use the track on a TV show, or that you're out in the boonies, listening to an FM radio that has switched automatically to mono when the signal drops beyond a certain point.
 
Back to the two different tracks I just listened to: I think maybe part of the difference is the guitar players them selves. I'm guesing that Brandon was using a pick (maybe just a thumb pick) and the second player was using all fingers (no pick). I could be wrong. But the fact that a guitar strummed or plucked with a finger is got a more pleasing texure than one with a pick.

Brandon, were you using a pick? LEt us know. I would be interested in the other clip as well. Do we know?

Harvey, I guess I've never notice a phase problem with chorus but I willing to listen to your opinions to try and better appreciate this great industry. Maybe I missed somthing along the way. Thanks.
 
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Originally posted by Joe E Harvey, I guess I've never notice a phase problem with chorus but I willing to listen to your opinions to try and better appreciate this great industry. Maybe I missed somthing along the way. Thanks.
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Joe, don't listen to my opinions (my opinions are pretty much worthless, unless they match your real world experience). Listen to a stereo chorus recorded to two tracks (or clean on one track and chorus on the other) and try summing them to mono. Same thing with two identical tracks, one slipped a few milliseconds.
 
Hey Harvey I think I will try this at the studio today. I usually practice sending all my final mixes to a mono send for just this reason, but..usually a guitar with a chorus in this manner is way in the back of the mix anyway. I may have missed it. I let you know what I hear once I get a chance to give it a try.
 
Joe,
yeah i was using a pick. I'm not sure about the other clip. I will find out and post it back here. i was recently using a really thin pick and didn't think anything of it until i was going through the variables of what could be affecting the sound and i just tried a thicker pick, the ones i use for bass, and the guitar sounded a lot bigger and more full.

Anyways...I gonna stick with the thicker pick from now one, but the clips i recorded was using those anyways. I'll let you know about the other clip. I didn't even think to ask that, i just figured as much, but for all i think it was just fingerpicking.

good idea,
Brandon
 
I bet that will make a big difference. I actually missed it the first time around becasue my computer is so slow at downloads, I only listen to about the first 8-10 seconds of your mix. The second time through I heared you strum a few chords and knew right away.

You also might try a test recording with a thin, med and heavy pick and then with your fingers all playing the same portion of the song, and all with out moving yourself or setup. Fact is that moving your body an inch or two in any direction will have a change in the tone.
 
Alright...i'm back with the results. The clip guardian recorded with the ecm8000s. The gear was:

Gibson WM, D'addario strings, and Dunlop Tortex .73mm

My clip:

Dean Exotica, D'addario strings, and Dunlop Tortex .73mm



Advantage: Guardian

The deciding factor as i assumed is the guitar. Gibson has some sound clips of their guitars on their website and it sounds similar to the one guardian recorded, which is tons better than mine. so i guess i'm to conclude that the boxy sound of my tracks are a quality, as one might assume, of the guitar i'm playing. Until i wind up with alot of money for the taylor or something similar, i guess that's life. If anyone has suggestions, keep 'em coming.

thanks,
Brandon
 
One last thought Brandon,

What gauge strings are you using vs Guardian? The heavier the better for improving a box that sounds small. IE: Light gauge = tinny sound, Heavy guage = deep sound, Med = maybe just right mix of both?

Joe
 
I've tried several brands of strings, haven't really switched gauge at all, but i'm using light gauge, but they're elixirs so they run a little larger than most light gauge. I guess it's worth a try.

I did restring my old ibanez with elixirs yesterday and put down some sample tracks and i get a totally different sound. Real boomy, but not as harsh. So i think this pretty much proved to myself that differents guitars will sound different. I think i'm gonna sell some gear and get a guitar that i know i can count on to give me a good sound. can't hurt....


Thanks for all the ideas,
Brandon
 
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