I need help getting a "wider" mix!

  • Thread starter Thread starter madjaymz
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The trick is to never let the guitar player have the "guitar" faders.

LMFAO...you are so fugging right! (and I'm a guitar player).
 
What is an overhead? Im not too familiar with many terms, just my ears. Also, is there a such thing as a mix being too wide? Any examples? Sorry for spoiling your old skool moment :)
 
Overheads are the term used for a mics over a drum kit that captures the cymbals and often times the entire drum kit as a single unit. Overheads can be one, two (most commonly) or more mics.

IMHO properly chosen, set and mixed overheads are the critical element to getting a good drum sound.
 
try this

try panning the overheads 100 l/r
guitars 100R and about 85-90 left....offset them about 1-2 mil secs
pan the kit from the drummers point of view....
snare 10-15L
Kick C
HighHat I usually pan them 100 L and use bleed from the overheads to fill them out
High tom 40L
mid Tom 20 R
Floor Tom 60 R
Vocals....try panning a little to the left about 10
Remember, most people listen to music in the car and you want the vocalist somewhat in your lap ya know

that should open the field a little....
 
remember that bleedthrough on drumkit mics is pretty much always going to be there....use it to your advantage....if something is to loud or tinty....try soloing other tracks because it might not be let's say the highhat track that is making the highhats sound a little to prominent.....see what I mean....play around with it.....
Who ever mentioned panning the guitars 50r-50l that's great too....
but usually, try lower it on the left side a little....so if you wer going 50r....try 40L
that way the vocals can pop out a little more without having to volume them up....
 
Alot of well tracked guitars tack advantage of recording multiple instruments using diffrent timbre. i.e. gibson pan left fender pan right. check out some old zeppelin recordings. It falls under the same idealogy of equalizing left and right tracked instruments diffrently but using two diffrent sounds may add some flavor as well as increased imaging.
 
There are a zillion tricks for getting thigs to sit "outside the speakers" and almost all of them(that I know of) are simply phase, eq and delay based.
Think of an analogy when you are mixing: where does this "performance" take place? Is it in a giant gymnasium? is it in a hall? is it in a small room? is it intimate, like someone singing you a lullaby in a small, soft room?

The presentation of the content should be deliberate, rather than allowing the tracking to completely determine the light in which the material is cast...

I like to really visualize the "space" that the sounds "live" in. That seems to push me towards a consistent soundstage and appropriate amount of width and depth. Mixing should be a 3D endeavour... go beyond L-R. there is so much front to back, and center information in a good mix. Use appropriate amounts of reverb and delay and modulation to make things sit in this "space" in a cool way.... Mess with a bunch of effects.... have fun.... do it a lot.... repeat...
 
goldfish said:
Well, in CEP there is a thing in Pan/Expand in Amplification which "increaces the width", and there is a preset called "Mastering Width" which makes it about 45% wider. Not sure about such a thing in pro-tools

However, I have absolutley no idea what it actually does, but it sounds fairly good to me :) Its one of thems "magic buttons" :p
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Most "stereo enhancers" function by adjusting the phase of the left vs. right and right vs. left image. In other words, you are screwing up your phase relationships.

IMHO stereo width enhancers sound almost as bad on a mixdown as a BBE Sonic Maximizer or other aural enhancer.

Tools like these have their place for audio reconstruction, but never should be used as a "magic button" because it just doesn't work that way (did you really think it was that easy?). In fact, instead of magic button they should be called "newbie buttons" because overuse of that stuff screams novice engineer.

The only time I've ever used anything like a stereo enhancer was on individual tracks like overheads that were placed to centrally to capture a good image of a drum kit. And the only time I had to use that were on other people's recordings I had to re-mix for them. Once again--correcting an error.
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Most "stereo enhancers" function by adjusting the phase of the left vs. right and right vs. left image. In other words, you are screwing up your phase relationships.

IMHO stereo width enhancers sound almost as bad on a mixdown as a BBE Sonic Maximizer or other aural enhancer.

Tools like these have their place for audio reconstruction, but never should be used as a "magic button" because it just doesn't work that way (did you really think it was that easy?). In fact, instead of magic button they should be called "newbie buttons" because overuse of that stuff screams novice engineer.

The only time I've ever used anything like a stereo enhancer was on individual tracks like overheads that were placed to centrally to capture a good image of a drum kit. And the only time I had to use that were on other people's recordings I had to re-mix for them. Once again--correcting an error.
Click to expand...


Hehe.. thats what I was going to say. The only time I find that I use the Waves S1 is a small amount on a verb send, often to narrow the verb's spread during the verse then go wider on the chorus... never on a full mix.
 
Also.. a couple things... you're looking at two mixes. How do they sound? Whats your monitoring situation? Can you correctly hear a stereo spread?, depth?
 
ever open a PT session someone else tracked and it's got like a thousand points of automation in it?

not a good sign......
 
rokcid said:
try panning the overheads 100 l/r
guitars 100R and about 85-90 left....offset them about 1-2 mil secs
pan the kit from the drummers point of view....
snare 10-15L
Kick C
HighHat I usually pan them 100 L and use bleed from the overheads to fill


PLEASE TELL ME WHY MIX FROM THE DRUMMERS POV? Ive always mixed drums from an audience perspective, ususally Hi-hts 60/70 R with the snare 40/ 50 R. PS dont get bogged down in stereophonics - THERE is always a need to check mono compatability - for AM radio for example.
Click to expand...
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Most "stereo enhancers" function by adjusting the phase of the left vs. right and right vs. left image. In other words, you are screwing up your phase relationships.

IMHO stereo width enhancers sound almost as bad on a mixdown as a BBE Sonic Maximizer or other aural enhancer.

Tools like these have their place for audio reconstruction, but never should be used as a "magic button" because it just doesn't work that way (did you really think it was that easy?). In fact, instead of magic button they should be called "newbie buttons" because overuse of that stuff screams novice engineer.

The only time I've ever used anything like a stereo enhancer was on individual tracks like overheads that were placed to centrally to capture a good image of a drum kit. And the only time I had to use that were on other people's recordings I had to re-mix for them. Once again--correcting an error.
Click to expand...


For recording at home you can get impressive results from these type processors if you know how to use them. The problem is over-use, if you max out any enhancer or maximizer type piece of gear it sounds unnatural. Like all other processors, used sparingly, they can add something positive to your mix.
 
Why do you want it wider? Is it because your ears are telling you it needs it, or is it because Paz is telling you? Are you presently at a natural stereo image, and are trying to push it into the supernatural Floydosphere? Nothing wrong with that if that's what your after, but as always, let the song tell you what it wants, not the meters.

-RD
 
I'd like to mention that this thread is 17 months old. Just sayin'.....
 
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