i need all of your help!!!!

D

dcptnsdcvd

New member
ok, here is my set:

7 pcs shell kit, 3 rack mounted toms (8, 10, 13) 2 flr toms (16, 18) 22" kick. 3 roto toms (6, 8, 10).
the set is set up (from the drummers point of view, left to right)...
roto toms above my hi-hat, right in line with my rack mounted toms. above them, far laft is my 19 china and to the right of that, right above my first rack mounted tom is my 16 crash. between my hi-hat and first rack tom is a 9 1/2 inch zil-bell. above my second rack tom is my 10" splash. above my third rack tom is my 14" china. on the right of that i have my two 18" crashs. below these and right next to my third tom is my 20" ride. right next to the two 18" crashs is my 18" fast china.
thats my set.
these are my mics:

3 sennheiser e 825s
1 radio shack clip mic for the snare
2 mics comprable to the senn.s
2 Oktava MK319s
1 AKG CS1000

i have the 3 senns on the rack mounted toms, the 2 comprable ones in the kick and over the 2 flr toms. the 2 oktavas i have above my head, facing down on the kit in a traditional left/right setup. the AKG is right next to the left oktava, pointed at the roto toms for coverage there.

my rack mounted toms are making horrible, LOUD noise. mostly when i hit the kick. but all drums are doing it. when i strike one drum, all the others strike too. know what i mean? as if when i strike the third tom, all other drums are giving almost the same volume of noise as if they were being struck too.
it's killing me.
the AKG isn;t sounding right in the place it's in now. i wonder if theres a better place to put it.
now, aside from the problems i addressed above, i am certain there are several other problems that i haven;t become aware of or cannot address at this time.
does anybody have any ideas on how i can imporve upon this set up??????
please, the progress of this project is at a stand still untill i can figure out how to make this set record well. i need all your help.
Mike...
 
dcptnsdcvd said:
ok, here is my set:

7 pcs shell kit, 3 rack mounted toms (8, 10, 13) 2 flr toms (16, 18) 22" kick. 3 roto toms (6, 8, 10).
the set is set up (from the drummers point of view, left to right)...
roto toms above my hi-hat, right in line with my rack mounted toms. above them, far laft is my 19 china and to the right of that, right above my first rack mounted tom is my 16 crash. between my hi-hat and first rack tom is a 9 1/2 inch zil-bell. above my second rack tom is my 10" splash. above my third rack tom is my 14" china. on the right of that i have my two 18" crashs. below these and right next to my third tom is my 20" ride. right next to the two 18" crashs is my 18" fast china.
thats my set.
these are my mics:

3 sennheiser e 825s
1 radio shack clip mic for the snare
2 mics comprable to the senn.s
2 Oktava MK319s
1 AKG CS1000

i have the 3 senns on the rack mounted toms, the 2 comprable ones in the kick and over the 2 flr toms. the 2 oktavas i have above my head, facing down on the kit in a traditional left/right setup. the AKG is right next to the left oktava, pointed at the roto toms for coverage there.

my rack mounted toms are making horrible, LOUD noise. mostly when i hit the kick. but all drums are doing it. when i strike one drum, all the others strike too. know what i mean? as if when i strike the third tom, all other drums are giving almost the same volume of noise as if they were being struck too.
it's killing me.
the AKG isn;t sounding right in the place it's in now. i wonder if theres a better place to put it.
now, aside from the problems i addressed above, i am certain there are several other problems that i haven;t become aware of or cannot address at this time.
does anybody have any ideas on how i can imporve upon this set up??????
please, the progress of this project is at a stand still untill i can figure out how to make this set record well. i need all your help.
Mike...
Click to expand...

Tims Rules of Recording drums:

#1
No toms or cymbals mounted to a kick drum.
#2
No Microphone Claws. Use stands. You can not use a claw and seriously expect no vibrations to be transmitted.
#3 Tuning.

There are two types of tuning:

"Tuning for the room" (Positive tuning)

If you tune the drums for their optimum sustain, many times the sustain and volume are too much for "Real" close micing....generally there needs to be 4" to 6" between the mic and the drumhead. This type of tuning will tend to give you more of a John Bonhamish type of sound. The Resonant heads are tighter than the Batter heads.

"Tuning for the mic's" (Negative tuning)

If you use negative tuning (Bottom head is tuned to the lowest note the drum will make, and the top head is about 1/3rd. higher in pitch) you can close mic, and get the mic's really close to the tom heads 1" to 4", even though I still like the 4" to 6" rule. This type of sound is close to the "System of a Down" type of drumsound.



Your toms sustain are cuasing the ones next to them to ring in unison, or vibrations are being transmitted through your mic holders, which will givbe you a nasty "after-ring"...almost a grating type of noise when you hit the drums.


Set your kit up with just the pair of overheads, and the kick mic.

Tune the kit to sound good in that, and then try adding in other mic's, but just remember - you can't use the claws....if you do, you are going to need to gate the hell out of everything....which is something I've come to really hate....I do use noise gates, but generally it's just on the kick these days, and I have a trigger on the kickdrum opening the gates (using a dbx #166A, I have the triggers "Y"'d together in parallel then plugged into the KEY function of my noise gate.)





Tim
 
with just using the overheads and a kick drum i am getting balanced sound (meaning everything is at a good level, sounds like a decent mix of the set) but it still sounds like a garage recording, like as opposed to the way YamahaPastie's drums sound...
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists...id=1847&alid=-1
this may not be the best drum sound in the world cuzza the toms being all boomy and the cymbals not sounding in the right place and the overkill'ed reverb, but it still sounds ten times more "professional" than mine. my stuff always comes out sounding "garage" i wish there was a better way to explain it. my recordings always sound flat. like theres no room. like, as if the above drum solo is very three dimentional and my stuff is very, well, non-dimentional. and it's not like panning or stuff like that. i suppose it could be anything from the mics i'm using to not knowing how to EQ or mix properly. i would very much so like to narrow it down.
another thing i'd like to ask Tim Brown,
if i were to invest in microphones for my drum set (in the studio), what would i get that i would never need to buy mics again? whats the BEST mics to use for recording drums?
i have been told that ribbon mics are it. the best way to go. i hear they're quite expensive, but if they're the best and i'll never really have to buy anything better, then it's well worth the investment. i have a feeling the SM57 and D112 are NOT what people like danny carey and neil peart are using. and i don;t think it's just awesome engeneers doing incredible things on the boards.
although, i must say i can;t believe that YamahaPastie got that "professional" a sound with the mics he said he was using.
and i feel if he can get that nice a sound using those mics, i should be able to get a hella better sound using my mics than i have been getting.
so i guess my question is, what could i be doing wrong and what are the best mics on earth, regardless of price?
 
Great Post Tim! This definitely gives me some ideas to try with my micing setup, especially the tuning aspect. And I didn't even have to ask. Thanks :D
 
Mike (I'm assuming this is Mike Frank, since that was the name on those tracks.
Man, you guys play my kind of metal!(Hey, I'm 34 and I like REAL metal! :D:D)


Mic's for your kit:

Personally, I have never used the 825's. They may or may not work for you.

When I said you couldn't use claws....let me rephrase that. You CAN use claws, but you can't use them "as they are". The Older LP claws didn't transmit vibrations like the "re-designed" (read: Cheaper to make) Claws do.
What you have to do, is get a "half-thickness" mousepad and a hot glue gun. You cut the foam out to fit in the claw's "jaws", and then hotglue gun it in place.
This rubber will dampen the vibrations, which WILL allow you to use the Claws.
I hate the Sennehiser clamp system...it puts the mic too far out into the drum for me, and it's useless on anything smaller than a 13" drum.


Tom Mic's:
There are a variety of Tom mic's out there.

What I personally am using are the ATM Pro25's. These are Hypercardioid kickdrum mic's...they go for around $110 each online...sometimes you can catch them in what is called a "bulk pack" or as 8th. Street music (thanks for the tip last March, Gidge!) called the "bulk pac". I picked up the mic's for about $50 each.....hell, I wish I had bought 10 of them!

Beyer #M422's are designed for snares but are killer on toms.

SM57's work fine, as do the Sennheiser e604's and e602's.
The MD421 is the top of the line of Dynamic Tom mic's.

ATM Pro 35's are killer condenser's and they go for about $125 or so each.

Shure Beta 98's are the cream of the crop of "Clip On" condensers, and they go for $240 each with the drum mounting hardware.


Kick:

Dynamics

ATM Pro-25
ATM 25
AKG D-112
Shure Beta 52
Sennheiser MD421 mkII
Sennheiser MD441 mkII

Condensers

Shure Beta-91.
Kind of the cream of the crop of Kick drum mic's, but ONLY if you use muffling inside the kick drum, and can lay this mic inside the drum.

Tell me what kind of sound you are after drum by drum, and I may be able to walk you through getting that sound or something similar.

For a Tool type of kick sound, they used a "Tunnel" with a couple of Microphones to get that sound. You literally build a tunnel in front of the drum using either a Concrete form (a big Cardboard tube using for pouring concrete) or another Kick drum shell.

They take quilted packing blankets, and cover the tunnel with this, and pad the inside of it to keep everything else out of the kick mics, which are placed one at the mallet, and one at the end of the tunnel.

[image]http://www.toolband.com/source/images/studio3.gif[/image]

Notice they have nothing inside the tunnel, and a Mic (an AKG D-112)stuck at the end of it.
This get's the kick mic out away from the cymbals and the rest of the kit.
I prefer a little muffling inside the tunnel as well.


So, what kind of mixer, compression, and stuff like that do you have to work with, because those ALL make a difference.
I know for years I couldn't get the kick sound that I wanted, and I finally broke down and bought a dbx 166 Comp/Limiter with a basic noise gate built in, and had the basic kick sound I was after about 15 minutes after setting it up!


Tim
 
well, i am using a roland VS2480. i'm not sure if your farmiliar with this type of device but it's everything in one. 24 physical/378 virtual track recording console. each channel has parametric eq including low, high and other pass filters (BEF, BMF or something like that). and each channel has a section for compression, expander, and both at the same time. i only have capabilities to run 2 effects at once, i need more effects cards.
but it is really the whole studio from input to cd all in one.
i am learning more about it everyday.
Mike...
 
hey Tim,

really glad you like the music, it's kinda hard to find people still intrested in the traditional rock/metal sound these days. everyones into the new age metal sound.
anyway, regarding that, we are looking for a vocalist.
now, given that not alot of people are intrested in the traditional metal sound that we have, we are being very careful with vocalists. we would like to find the perfect one. but we don;t want like a traditional metal vocalist. we kinda wanna re-invent the metal vocalist. the biggest thing is they have to be a serious vocalist. not someone who wants to scream and yell and bang their head. someone who takes singing very seriously and artistically.
do you know of anyone in the community that you would recomend we listen to?
 
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