I Love This Quote - Oh So True

  • Thread starter Thread starter Recording Engineer
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sonusman:

I doubt this is his first post here; maybe so under that name.

No big thing about the tapes; I'm extremely patient.

Oh and why don't you do yourself a favor and save a few bucks and get yourself a pair C3000s instead of wasting your money on a pair of 414s since they sound so similar in cardioid? Besides, you use cardioid 90% of the time right? Is it really worth the extra money for those other two patterens you'll hardly ever use anyway?
 
I've read quite a few posts by R.E. here while looking for any reviews on the jomeek jm-47. I just now went back and re-checked for his (or her) comments on the c3000, and found four of them without looking to hard.
If he doesn't own one, why is he saying it's his "second least favorite large d condenser mic??
Anyway, while I'm writing this I might as well post what I meant to before I started arguing with these guys about nonsense.
Has anyone checked out the above mentioned jomeek mic. I am curious as it's really cheap (only $209.) and comes with a case, shockmount and cable.
There was one review in s.o.s. and it was compared to the nt-1 which was my other choice.
Please respond "if" you own it or you've heard it only.
By the way, without playing the who has the best stuff game with all you rich master sound engineers, I have real preamps and a real soundcard and know what i'm listening to.
 
now i've read more. i guess, sonusman, that you haven't used a c12 or a solidtube or even a freaking d112 if you can say that the only akg you think is worth a shit is a 414.
the c3000 is not my favorite mic, but i just have trouble with you guys confusing people (probably as poor as me) coming here for honest advice.

i've had vocals recorded by a real engineer through a vintage c12 through a manley preamp through a tube tech compressor through a euphonix console through an otari 2-inch machine in a real vocal booth monitored through damn genelecs and it is quite possible to get better sounds with an sm-58 if you know what you're doing.(he didn't, and you probably don't either).
and by the way, pj harvey made a fantastic album on a cassette four track.
 
NS,If you like the C3000 and know how to use it to get good results then to you it's not an overated mic.And that's great.I own one too but I am a novice with little real home recording expierence.I have recorded and have been recorded but... if you visit this site for a time, people that really know what they are doing are very generous about sharing what they know. What I love about this site is the passion that sometimes leads to confrontational exchanges that make folks REALLy elaborate whatever is being talked about. And what ever your own learning pace is,I like to think you will be a wiser musician/home recordist.Peace.
 
Gosh, if the C3000 was such an outstanding mic that was treasured by studio engineers and home recordists alike, it makes me wonder why the price so rapidly dropped to under $200 and then the mic disappeared off the market as the company felt compelled to produce a new, improved version.
 
What's so surprising about that?
Car companies offer mega-discounts on the 'end-of-model-year' cars in order to make room for the next years model. It doesn't mean that there's something "wrong" with the previous model.
That's business, not a conspiracy... and it benefits the consumer. :)
 
You know, R.E. has been taking it on the chin for recommending the Oktavas lately, but the fact is MC012 factory matched pair has a really sweet sound. (Yes, from The Sound Room).

I probably wouldn't have bought mine if it wasn't for R.E. and Harvey Gerst (the Pope of the rec.audio.pro newsgroup) recommending them. For those of us who would love to have Neumanns but can't afford them, this was a good tip, particularly for acoustic instruments. I've used them on piano, percussion, violin, and even my cheesy Yamaha spanish guitar with good results.

Mics are just tools, and this might not be the right tool for your musical style. I wouldn't hammer the guy for sharing his opinion. My first mic was one of those plastic ones with the switch on the side...come a long way.

Now I wish I liked my two ART MPs more than I actually do...

Mark
 
Buck62: "Car companies offer mega-discounts on the 'end-of-model-year' cars in order to make room for the next years model."

Buck, I respect your music and recording knowledge, but your car analogy is weak. Car manufactruers have to keep changing models because people buy cars for status, not mere serviceability. People will pay a lot of money for status, and they don't want status from four years ago. That's business, and the car manufacturers know it well.

On the other hand, people do buy mics for serviceability. If you make a great mic for a fair price, customers will buy it and they will keep on buying it. Mic customers don't want great mics to change. They want mics with proven performance. You don't see AT changing the 4033; you don't see Neumann changing the U87; and you don't see Shure changing the SM 57. You don't see these mics being unloaded at "mega-discounts" either. You know why? They don't have to. It's due to a powerful economic dictator called Supply and Demand. Their mics are in demand, and that's good business.

I agree with you that none of this means that there is anything wrong with the C3000. It just means that it wasn't capturing any market share in the the $350-$500 mic range that it targeted. In short, it couldn't compete. You tell me why. I'm sure it sold very well at $199. But AKG already sells a condensor mic in that price range. And for every C3000 purchased at $199, that's one less customer buying a C1000--a mic that, I'll wager, costs a lot less to manufacture than a C3000.

And none of this even takes into consideration the unrecovered Research and Development and other sunk costs associated with the C3000.

So instead of stealing profits from themselves, AKG remodled (reworked)the C3000 and is remarketing it as the "new and improved," C3000B, and you'll notice the price is back up to $349, again attempting to compete with the $350-$500 mics. Perhaps this time it will be successful. If it is successful, it will be because it truly is as good a value as other mics in this price range, not because it's the latest model. :cool:

ns: I don't know exactly what changes were made to the 421, but I'll bet the price didn't plummet 60% in less than a year because of poor sales. :cool:

[This message has been edited by tdukex (edited 05-11-2000).]
 
OK here we go ns; not that you are worthy of an explinated effort on my part due to your very disrespectful attacks on myself and The Sound Room. So follow along this time...

"Recording Engineer, you need to stop slamming the c3000 until you have used one."

I have and I don't like it compared to the Rode NT-1 in its price range or any other more expensive large diaphragm consenser I've heard/used.

"This is a great mic, but it seems someones convinced you that it isn't, probably the
sound room people that have got you brainwashed into spending extra money for crappy mics and trying to get everyone else to do the same."

First, I've convinced myself because that's what my ears tell me. Second, "extra money"?, mics from The Sound Room are some of the least expensive decent mics even worth considering. Third, there are no "people" at The Sound Room, just Taylor Johnson; and you better do some research on his history and credits before you consider him "brainwashing" me.

"And second, if you had ever used one next to a 414, you would know that the c3000 sounds very similar to one set to cardioid."

Have you anyone who's opinion is considered "valued by the recording industry" who shared this idea with you? I have many who share my same opinion (which I did form on my own through experiences) as I. I could give you a list but I'd rather send you to the rec.audio.pro newgroup and see who and how many share my same opinion on this.

"In fact, with the improved c3000b, they sound nearly identical (in that position, of
course). I've used them together for stereo miking of acoustic guitars, etc., and when compared they are extremely close in sound."

I wouldn't know... I quickly admit (as I always do when I have not heard/used a microphone) that I have not heard/used a C3000B.
 
"If he doesn't own one, why is he saying it's his "second least favorite large d condenser
mic??"

Ha. You think you have me cornered, don't you? Well the answer is so easy. It's becaused I've used it and have done comparisions to other mics with it. I quickly admit (as I have before) that this was in a local music store, but I am friends with the "lead sales engineer" (who is an engineer for quite a few bands around town) and did some comparisons at the store in their iso-booth onto ADAT tape.

"Has anyone checked out the above mentioned jomeek mic. I am curious as it's really
cheap (only $209.) and comes with a case, shockmount and cable. There was one review in s.o.s. and it was compared to the nt-1 which was my other choice.

Please respond "if" you own it or you've heard it only."

Yes I have heard/used the Joe Meek JM-47. I'll use other's words from r.a.p. for this:


"Well, here is a hint. Audix, Meek, ADK, Marshall, and a couple other companies all sell microphones that are made in the Shanghai factory with the same U87 clone capsules and with similar or identical electronics.

--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis.""


"And for a while, I thought that they were pretty different mics, because they all sounded so different. Then I heard a few of the same brand together, and what do you think of that- they sounded just as
different from each other as the different brands did. If you feel you need one of these, just buy the Marshall- it's the cheapest.

Jon Best
Sales Weasel From Mars"


"There was one review in s.o.s. and it was compared to the nt-1 which was my other choice."

So considering they are one and the same, I recall another review... http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/files/7E01340C209C8C99862568AD0072955B
Remember that review?

"By the way, without playing the who has the best stuff game with all you rich master
sound engineers, I have real preamps and a real soundcard and know what i'm listening
to."

So what are "real preamps" and a "real soundcard" to you? How about cables and monitors?
 
"now i've read more. i guess, sonusman, that you haven't used a c12 or a solidtube or
even a freaking d112 if you can say that the only akg you think is worth a shit is a 414."

I can mention a whole list of people "whos opinions are regarded extremely valuable in the recording industry" from the the rec.audio.pro newsgroup who have an opinion that stock C12s are one of the worst mics they've ever heard. An example from r.a.p. is:


"Hello all again, i would like to here all your comments on the AKG "The Tube" Mic

Thanx
adam
StudioOne Recording"


"They're an excellent, economicly feasable base to send to Stephen Paul and have a real mic made from them. Other than that...I find them to be a really nasty, little sounding piece of shit...much like the 'VR' with a more apropriate paint job.
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670 <A HREF="http://www.mercenary.com"" TARGET=_blank>http://www.mercenary.com"</A>


"the c3000 is not my favorite mic, but i just have trouble with you guys confusing people
(probably as poor as me) coming here for honest advice."

Then how can you afford:

"vocals recorded by a real engineer through a vintage c12 through a manley preamp through a tube tech compressor through a euphonix console through an otari 2-inch machine in a real vocal booth monitored through damn genelecs and it is quite possible to get better sounds with an sm-58 if you know what you're doing."? And, "real preamps and a real soundcard"?

"it is quite possible to get better sounds with an sm-58 if you know what you're doing.(he didn't, and you probably don't either)."

"know what i'm listening to."

You've convinced me...
 
i guess i need to restate why i started bitching in the first place.
i thought this was the "home recording"
bbs. i came here to look for info on a "home recording" mic. obviously there are better mics out there. i've used alot of them for alot of different things in different studios, but my problem with r.e.'s thread was the same problem i had with alot of his other threads that i saw on this site.
i've seen the mic i was talking about used on alot of different projects and heard it on real albums that i own with great results.
my problem is with nitpicking what are good mics and making them sound as if they're insufficient for "home recording" applications, which is what it seems this site was meant for.
 
See if you would have just come here and said that, instead of throwing around meaningless bullshit along with your point, like you did, then I think you'd get a lot more respect than you do.

Yes, the AKG C3000 and C3000B are "home recording" mics as are dozens of other mics under say... $1.5kUS (those which are under that point have either been around for a damn long time because they have proven themselves time and time again, or because damn near everyone agrees (though experiences) that a "home recording" mic is worth while to have in a "pro recording"). The C3000 nor the C3000B has made that second option and I promise it's not in half as many pro studios as the AT4033 or Oktava MC-012 from The Sound Room only (not even the C3000B; and it won't). We all would have known by now if it were. But again for the ?# of times, I have heard/used the C3000 but not the C3000B.

I've simply stated multiple times (like I do a lot of things/like we all do a lot of things, so people don't have to deal too much of that search engine) for "newbies" to this site and those who've missed it all those times, who've asked, that it is (that is the C3000) my second least favorite "budgetable" ("home recording") large diaphragm condenser; second to the MXL 2001/ADK A-51/Joe Meek JM-47/Audix CX-101.

If $200US is the max. you want/can spend on a large diaphragm condenser mic, I always suggest a Rode NT-1 simply because I like it a lot better than the C3000 and know many people who feel the same.

Someone here asked about the AT3525, which I said I had not used so I went to r.a.p. and checked people's thoughts/experiences there; same thing with some CAD mics.

Also, a lot of times I suggest they hold out for a AT4033 or NT-2 because I know there's a big difference between those and an NT-1. If they do, they do. If they don't, they don't. Damn... It's just a suggestion.

In fact, you've accused me multiple times of never even using a C3000 when in fact I've posted who knows how many times I have; and done side-by-side track comparisions to it with an NT-1, AT4033, and MXL 2001. Have you? It seems to me, you haven't heard (maybe you have?; I don't know). But that's what this whole thread was styarted for. That's why I posted that quote by Harvey Gerst. Why don't you go over to r.a.p. and argue with them? I promise they won't be as nice as we are here. They'll rape you with your precious AKG C3000 up you ass.

By the way, I'm joking and trying to keep a little humor in this because is don't take much seriously.

"i've seen the mic i was talking about used on alot of different projects and heard it on
real albums that i own with great results."

Mind sharing those "real album" names and the artist(s)?

"my problem is with nitpicking what are good mics and making them sound as if they're
insufficient for "home recording" applications, which is what it seems this site was meant for."

Well if they're sufficient enough for your "home recording" applications, then so be it. I am truely glad you're happy. But when I use mics for the same applications and for the same price which I personally think does a better job, then I tend to suggest that other mic. In this case, it's the NT-1.

I'm gonna stick to that and keep on doing what I've been doing for a damn near year here!
 
i guess if you actually believe that 1500 dollars is representative of what the average home recordist can spend on a mic, you can tear every mic apart.
 
and by the way, the ass comment says alot about your obsession with mics....that octavia certainly is the most phallic of the sub $1500 "budgetable" mics.
 
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