I just need complete and utter help, haha.

[inmyheartx]

I listen to a lot of Punk / Hardcore stuff, and in a lot of these bands recordings the guitars have a lot of distortion, but sound clean and full(Like anything Zach Ohren engineers. Example: Go It Alone, Set It Straight, Set Your Goals, Shook Ones, etc). Everytime I record I get muddy / thin guitar sounds. I was just curious what techniques I could try. I've read a lot of the articles on this board, but I don't seem to find anything substantial. The last time I tried to do this was a few days ago. 5150 Head, Marshall 4x12 Cab. I miked it with an SM57 a little off center of the cone. I recorded in a small room, because I figured a tighter room would give me a tighte, more full sound, i'm probably wrong but ya. Anyway it came out pretty thin, I even double tracked the guitars. Left and Right. Does anyone want to run through how to track guitars, explaining to a newbie, like I consider myself. I've always just recorded drums first, then track guitars / bass, then vocals. I was told by my teacher the other day that you're supposed to record rhythm tracks at the same time as drums, to give it more of an emotional live feel, but I don't have anywhere to put the amp so it won't pick up in the drum mikes. He was telling us about using moving blankets to drown out the sound of an amp, if anyone knows how to extensively do this please explain. To me, there's no such thing as a stupid question which is why I posted all these. I just want to get a better sound, so I can progress as an beginning engineer. Like always, any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

Take care,
Adam.

 

[chessrock]

5150 Head, Marshall 4x12 Cab.

Generally speaking, if you're using a 5150 head, you'll get a much better sound if you turn the presence control way down, or just dial it out altogether. Yeah, I know you probably like it, but it's not necessary when you record, and it will make everything sound thin and indestinct when it's tracked. Trust me, it's evil.

From there, just do the basics ; Dial the gain down lower. This is another thing you want to do when you track, because you don't need nearly as much of it as you think you do. Give yourself just enough gain to where you get a good "chug chug," as well as enough sustain on bends and things like that, and that's all you need. Trust me on this one, too. I know 5150's.

As for the EQ on the amp ... try turning the treble down. If you normally have it turned all the way to the right, then turn it down to the center position. If the mids are usually turned all the way down, then try them just left of center. Dial in just enough bass to where you're getting some balls out of the chuggy-chug stuff, but it doesn't muddy up the track when doing anything else. The nice part about the bass is that it's much easier to tame or boost using EQ after the fact; much more so than with treble and/or presence. If you track with too much presence and/or treble on the amp, then you're going to wind up with a thin-sounding track, and it's next to impossible to tame it after the fact.

What I'm saying is that getting a good sounding distortion on a recording takes a certain degree of translation. In other words, what sounds good to you in the room, standing in front of the amp, is going to be much different than what sounds good on a recording. Yea, it sucks and it's a pain in the ass, but the only way around it is through experimentation, and lots of it.

.

 

[metalhead28]

Several things come to mind here. What does the amp sound like in the room? How close did you put the mic? What sort of signal chain was in use besides the 57?

If you have searched this board surely you have turned up several threads about easing back on the gain somewhat compared to a live sound. Also you may have read about layering multiple tracks with varying tones in order to build a full, finished sound rather than getting it all in one or two tracks.

Also there is nothing wrong with recording rhythm guitars separately from the drums as long as you have good players. I always track that way, as do a whole lot of people.

I also have never been happy with the sound of one mic on the cabinet. I always use more than one mic and usually do 4 or more tracks. Alot of times I'll just do 2 performances and then re-amp each one a few times with different amps. I think that is the best way personally, but everybody has a different approach.

 

[metalhead28]

Chessrock is spot on about the 5150's. I use one and I usually adhere to the things he said. I often end up with everything around 5 or 6. The gain I usually top out at 4 or 5, even for extreme metal stuff.

 

[inmyheartx]

The settings on the 5150 were: Lead Pre-Gain 4, Low 3, Mids 4, Treble 4. I don't know, i've never used a 5150, it wasn't my amp, but I was just trying to get a good recorded sound out of it. I think I just need to fuck with the eq better. As far as signal flow, it was just SM57 -> Firepod, I didn't run it through anything else. I don't have much hardware besides a compressor. Is there anything that will make it sound better, or what? Thanks for the help so far guys, i'll try to just experiement more. =)

Take care,
Adam.

 

[soundchaser59]

Chessrock is spot on about the 5150's. I use one and I usually adhere to the things he said. I often end up with everything around 5 or 6. The gain I usually top out at 4 or 5, even for extreme metal stuff.

And he is spot on the money about everything else he says in that post! Solid advice, Chess..... absolutely appropriate.

 

[Adam P]

Why don't you talk to Zack himself about it?

AIM: Zack Ohren

Phone: 510-676-1190

Email: Zack@castleultimate.com

You're right, though, his recordings do sound great. My friend's band, These Days, did their records with him and they sound terrific.

 

[inmyheartx]

Why don't you talk to Zack himself about it?

AIM: Zack Ohren

Phone: 510-676-1190

Email: Zack@castleultimate.com

You're right, though, his recordings do sound great. My friend's band, These Days, did their records with him and they sound terrific.

I've e-mailed him before about what mic's he used on the Go It Alone album, and he responded. But I sent him another one and he didn't reply, I just figured he was busy or what not. I might hit up his AIM and ask. I love his engineering, everything he does sounds so superb.

Take care,
Adam.