I haven't been using compression enough.

  • Thread starter Thread starter HangDawg
  • Start date Start date
I would rather be using compression for straight up colorization and no dynamic control. It seems i usually need to use less of it to get the same effect if they are better dynamically in general.

I believe in this place compression for taming dynamics isnt an excuse either. People here should no better. When im recording clients that dont know any better, and i have to make them sound Britney Spears off of some cheap Karaoke (or even some more serious than that) i would rather have them going home with less of those kinds of problems without having to tell them they are suckin it up and have to redo it. Although they dont really learn anything, it keeps my from offending anyone. People here should know better than that. Especially the situations when a client books 3 hours. The whole session i keep reminding them that i will need time for mixing. Then they end tracking at like 2 hours and 45 minutes and give me 15 minutes to mix. Even after i tell them my estimate. Instead of taking my time im just gonna slap whatever i can on their to get the job done fastest.

Then theirs even some of the great singers that come in here with really wide dynamic range. Why? Because the music needs it. But it still need some control taming and smoothing in general. Either between just smoothing out single words or taming down the parts where shes belting it. If the song is calling just for helping smooth out words and bring out subtle things in the voice its usually 2:1 ratio straight through. If they need a little bit of control from going to loud ill usually slide it to 2.5:1 ratio, although thats where i would rather use the automation.

And yes! 2:1 Ratio makes a HUGE difference in the sound. Most of the time 2:1 is all ill ever use. A few things dood need more. But unless im going for some kind of extreme color, 2:1 is all i ever need. And yes, there is a big (sometimes huge) difference between 2:1 and 2.5:1 .

So dont get me wrong on the last thread. I dont really use a whole lot of compression. Sometimes on rock stuff i really like to crank that 1176 plugin. Sometimes on rock i dont.

Danny
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
I find a lot of times gating the snare or using Sound Replacer/triggers is necessary because I can't stand the high hat/cymbal bleed's sound after I compress and EQ the snare. Especially to get some of these "modern" snare sounds with their insane 10k and 5k boosts.
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this is exactly why i may brake down and finally get drumagog.

i really like the idea of getting my own sounds, but i hate bleed in the snare mic.


rami-
sometimes you just can't get the snare propperly isolated from the hats,
if the drummer plays his hats close to the snare, and his snare hand is kinda week compaired to his right hand (i see this often enough) then you've got a little problem to deal with, i don't care whare you hang your hat.
 
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giraffe said:
rami-
sometimes you just can't get the snare propperly isolated from the hats,
if the drummer plays his hats close to the snare, and his snare hand is kinda week compaired to his right hand (i see this often enough) then you've got a little problem to deal with, i don't care whare you hang your hat.
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Giraffe, I guess the reason I don't have a problem with this is because I'm the drummer. I guess a person who records other people will have to deal with drummers who bad dynamics or weak snare hands. But, and believe me, I'm not claiming to be Buddy Rich, but I think my playing is solid and good enough that dynamics,etc...isn't a worry for me. I also place something between the snare mic and the high hats and really don't have a problem with hat bleed, while still being able to pick up all my "drags" and "ghost notes". It took me a long time of playing with the threshold on the gate and input volume to get it just right. But when I finally got it set up right, it's a synch.
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
I find a lot of times gating the snare or using Sound Replacer/triggers is necessary because I can't stand the high hat/cymbal bleed's sound after I compress and EQ the snare. Especially to get some of these "modern" snare sounds with their insane 10k and 5k boosts.
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I don't like this idea very much myself. It is just a matter of opinion, however. I don't really mind gating the snare a little. But if I had a huge problem with the snare, I would probably just want to record the drum tracks over from scratch. But our situation is conducive to that: we have no deadlines, it's just the two of us (Supercreep and myself) and we're trying to record real drums as best as we can. Swapping out the snare with a fake snare is not going to teach us how best to record the snare. And we like odd-times and flams too much to use drums machines or the like. I guess we're not so much into the 'modern' snare sound.
I can see that the subject of compression use is nearly as bad as politics! There's a million different opinions. . .

But like Supercreep said, we're not experts by any means.
 
incanus, this is the second time today i've heard you refer to a modern snare sound, and I'm curious as to what that sound is in your view. Previously you referred to boosted 4k and 10k, but that strikes me as being more of a 90's snare sound. I have come across a lot of beautifully rich, deep, and dry snares in recent recordings I've heard like Beck's Sea Change, which I like a lot, maybe the "modern" snare sound is out of date by now?
 
corban said:
incanus, this is the second time today i've heard you refer to a modern snare sound, and I'm curious as to what that sound is in your view. Previously you referred to boosted 4k and 10k, but that strikes me as being more of a 90's snare sound.
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Personally, I listen to the snare in the room and try to record it like it sounds. That's my goal anyway.
 
corban said:
incanus, this is the second time today i've heard you refer to a modern snare sound, and I'm curious as to what that sound is in your view. Previously you referred to boosted 4k and 10k, but that strikes me as being more of a 90's snare sound. I have come across a lot of beautifully rich, deep, and dry snares in recent recordings I've heard like Beck's Sea Change, which I like a lot, maybe the "modern" snare sound is out of date by now?
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Really I have no view on 'modern' snare sound that anyone should pay any heed to. I have been listening to less and less radio of late. But I never said anything about the eq boosts. I did quote Cloneboy Studio who said that 'modern' snare sounds had insane 5k and 10k boosts. I think you are probably right that that is a 90's kind of sound. Some of the new stuff I like surely has less processing on it than back in those days. But some of it seems to have quite a bit (like Perfect Circle).

Yes! I suppose I have to take back saying that we aren't much into the modern snare sound. Because we like it pretty dry.

I agree with what HangDawg just said there about trying to capture the sound as it is. Our kit sounds pretty good, so. . .

But I have a general compression question for anyone or everyone posting in this thread: When mixing, if on a specific track you have an instrument (like drums or vocals especially) recorded that sounds good to your ears and the dynamics of the track are suitable to the rest of the mix, should it still be compressed as a matter of course?

I suppose that fairly soon I am going to try it on our newest drum tracks just to see what happens, but any insights anyone has would be much appreciated.

Great thread.
 
Incanus said:
I don't like this idea very much myself. It is just a matter of opinion, however. I don't really mind gating the snare a little. But if I had a huge problem with the snare, I would probably just want to record the drum tracks over from scratch.
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Usually not an option when you are recording clients. They will say one thing and change their mind the next day and want a totally different snare sound from what you tuned/recorded. Happens all the time.

Incanus said:
Swapping out the snare with a fake snare is not going to teach us how best to record the snare.
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Maybe not, but the pros do it all the time. Plus I know how to record a snare--a lot of times the sound people want involve sample replacement/triggers as an integral part.

Incanus said:
And we like odd-times and flams too much to use drums machines or the like.
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If you're patient enough you can program that stuff, but I agree on prefering the sound/feel of real drums when I want that sound. Sometimes I want an obvious drum machine feel on some of my own music.
 
Cloneboy, I agree with everything you just said. Recording a client is something Supercreep and I are not dealing with. We're musicians trying to learn how to put some half-way decent things on tape (well, computer) and mix them.

I have no problem with sampled snares, drum machines, and what-have you in lots of music I enjoy listening to. Our musical project is one that in its inception pretty well precludes those kinds of techniques. But should there come a moment of realization that we need just such a device, I shant bat an eye or hesitate one moment to get it going.

I really like discussing these subjects with people who know what they're talking about. (Not that I do!)

Well, I'm off to compress some drums now. . .
 
Keep in mind that if you have "all day" to work on something (i.e.--it's your own music) you can get amazing snare sounds without triggers/samples. Where I find such techniques useful are for bands coming in fast and cheap that need an extra push for the drums.

Normally I personally try to avoid it like the plague if I can.

Much like autotune and other editing devices it can be a hindrance, a crutch or a lifesaver depending on the situation.
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Keep in mind that if you have "all day" to work on something (i.e.--it's your own music) you can get amazing snare sounds without triggers/samples. Where I find such techniques useful are for bands coming in fast and cheap that need an extra push for the drums.

Normally I personally try to avoid it like the plague if I can.

Much like autotune and other editing devices it can be a hindrance, a crutch or a lifesaver depending on the situation.
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Agreed, Cloneboy.
I think we just had a slight communications misunderstanding stemming from not knowing where the other was coming from. With a client, you're on the clock, so the quick answer to a problem is going to start looking really good. And these kind of things Can work really well in a great many situations.
But Mr. Supercreep and myself have us an 'all day' type of situation. And I'll admit that there may be just a hint of a point of pride when we have a complete 'record' and we can say, 'that's right, there's nary a fake drum on this record!' Later today we're just going to record test drum tracks with different mics and mic configurations so we can, hopefully, learn how to get the sounds we want.
Of course, we do, from time to time do something that is convient for us. We occasionally employ digital editing for a quick fix. Don't know that we'll ever auto-tune anything (unless I sing something!).
Thanks for the interesting discussion.
 
Talking from experience - recording a Black Metal album earlier last year in a professional studio running Sonar. Compression was used on everything, as well as some Decibels of "head space" on every track. You can get away with recording some very tame music without compression, but with metal it is pretty much unavoidable. To me personally it kills two cops with one bullet - eleminating those bass frequencies that will give you a headache but won't be heard, and making the tracks evenly easy to deal with later volume-wise.
 
HangDawg said:
Personally, I listen to the snare in the room and try to record it like it sounds. That's my goal anyway.
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If i want it to sound exactly like it does in the room i find i need to whack the overheads.

1176, 4:1, medium attack, medium-fast release.

For my room it works 100%. YMMV.

-Finster
 
xfinsterx said:
If i want it to sound exactly like it does in the room i find i need to whack the overheads.

1176, 4:1, medium attack, medium-fast release.

For my room it works 100%. YMMV.

-Finster
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I have shitty overheads. Something I will be taking care of soon.
 
HangDawg said:
I have shitty overheads. Something I will be taking care of soon.
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Mxlv69's hang.
They sound great, great, great, and theyre affordable.
 
I'm learning about it. I recently noticed the huge effect it has on a track of mine, it didn't limit the big slow spikes, but it really really brought out the softer lows and it was really the first time that it was such a dramatic example. w/ out it, it was weak and washed out and uneven. But it was not at all noticeable that it was there. No pumping or breathing at all.
 
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