I have a confession . . .

[TexRoadkill]

Judging from today's radio-schlock, so is depth, ambience, dynamics and sound quality!

That was passe' by '79.

 

[Rock Star 87]

in a live concert, even club shows were the drums aren't mic-ed, the drums are facing the audience. My take is basic kit setup, pan as if toward audience, left or right. That's how it is live, right?

 

[dachay2tnr]

You know the ultra-wide stereo spread on drums that so many people seem to despise?

You know . . . the kind where you hear the tom rolls go from right speaker to left in an extreme fashion, and then you hear the crash way right?

I kinda' like that effect.

Lay-dees and gentlemen, filling in on drums for tonight's show will be Yao Ming.

 

[masteringhouse]

in a live concert, even club shows were the drums aren't mic-ed, the drums are facing the audience. My take is basic kit setup, pan as if toward audience, left or right. That's how it is live, right?

As with all of recording there are no "rules". In some cases there are highly suggested guidelines though

In the case of panning drums I've heard that used to be different in English v.s. American studios. Anyone have any articles on this?

My guess that it started in England, American studios had a tendency of sticking with the rules more than in England. Plus there were more Jazz records produced in America, so I would think that the tendency would be to pan according to the audience perspective just like a live recording.

Of course there were also those old Jazz (and rock, R&B) records where the drums were panned completely to either side.

 

[glynb]

Panning!

Chessrock:

Also, how do you pan, from the drummer's perspective or as if you were facing the drums.

Personaly I always pan from the guitarist's perspective, being a guitarist. The exception is where the bass player is left handed, in which case I reverse the drum panning.

 

[Garry Sharp]

What if the bass player and the drummer are left handed? And the drummer is also the lead singer. The keyboard player's ambidextrous and it's a revolving stage.

 

[chessrock]

I generally pan things from your sister's perspective:

On her back ! ! ! ha ha ! !

 

[grinder]

I generally pan things from your sister's perspective:

On her back ! ! ! ha ha ! !

I'd pan her legs at 10 and 2 o'clock.

 

[jfrog]

Chessrock:

I'm curious, are you a drummer now or in a previous period of your life?

Also, how do you pan, from the drummer's perspective or as if you were facing the drums.

This is probably a complete thread by itself.

There are only two groups of people that notice the direction of the pan - drummers and air-drummers (I'm the latter). In a live situation, the audience will never notice the separation, unless they're within 2 feet of your kit. But if that's the case, they're probably not listening as much as stalking or trying to borrow your car keys or something.

I would always pan from the drummer's perspective.

Disclaimer: I'm a guitarist who records (in stereo) with a drum machine and who thinks making percussive dry picking sounds on my guitar is cool.

 

[glimmer_doll]

What if the bass player and the drummer are left handed? And the drummer is also the lead singer. The keyboard player's ambidextrous and it's a revolving stage.

whoa...imagine continuously panning everything around in the mix so it's swirly and stuff...crazy. That would be a good idea for someone like tool to steal...er, appropriate...i would try it if i had automated panning...

 

[noiseportrait]

Panning is so 80's

The trend in the last couple of years with all these indie bands has been exactly the opposite. It seems like the mono, dry, distance miced drum sound is what's "in" these days. I can't stand most 80s rock, but I have to admit that I do miss that wide stereo spread. I even have a fetish for gated reverb at times, god forbid!

 

[chessrock]

Thank you, Phil Collins.

 

[mshilarious]

I even have a fetish for gated reverb at times, god forbid!

Sigh . . .

I confess I like reverse gates on guitar tracks.

There, I've said it. I feel so free!

 

[jayster10125]

gated reverb

Could someone explain gated and reverse gated reverb to me, or whatever you were mentioning...?

Or you could just hire a sound octopus to pan everything at once...haha.

Weird? I know.

Thanks for a good laugh all.

 

[mshilarious]

Gated reverb is a combo of reverb plus a gate (set much higher than you would normally for noise). So the reverb cuts off abruptly rather than finishing with a smooth tail. The effect is to extend the attack, often used on a snare to make it sound huge. The Phil Collins reference above is to the song "In the Air".

Reverse gate has the reverb swell in volume after the attack, then cut off abruptly. A similar sound is reverse reverb which has a normal reverb reversed and placed before the attack, which causes a swell up to the note rather than after. The gold standard of reverse is Def Leppard's "Pour Some Sugar on Me".

As you can see these effects are strongly associated with the '80s, hence our shame at using them

 

[glynb]

As you can see these effects are strongly associated with the '80s, hence our shame at using them

Quite right too...

When one thinks of the 50's its Elvis and Eddie Cochran
60's it's Beatles and Stones
70's Queen and Bowie
90s Nirvana and Metallica


and the 80's...Depeche Mode and Duran Duran and Phil Collins, ha ha ha, what a joke decade that was.

 

[mshilarious]

90s Nirvana and Metallica

But all of Metallica's good stuff was in the '80s. REM and U2 as well. Other than that, it was mostly a big decade of suck.

HEY! Duran Duran is working on a new album! I guess I'll buy it, cause back in the day I had all their others

 

[bsanfordnyc]

whoa...imagine continuously panning everything around in the mix so it's swirly and stuff...crazy. That would be a good idea for someone like tool to steal...er, appropriate...i would try it if i had automated panning...

there are FX units that do that....trust me, it sucks....it's annoying

 

[picostudios]

I always mix according to the musician facing the crowd. Never the possite. I would have to be air drummer to a cd and do a roll, and the rolls totally oppisite.

 

[guhlenn]

Phil Collins, ha ha ha, what a joke decade that was.

You're going to far ... Take it back! Seriously