I got something hooked up wrong i guess!

[tone_aot]

I'll try to explain this in detail so yall can understand where i'm coming from. Signal chain is mic-->mixer preamp, Main Mixer Left Output-->mogami 1/4 to rca-->rca input on audiohpile 2496. Problem i'm getting is that the mic sounds good when i listen to it thru the mixer(before it hits the 2496). After it goes thru the soundcard, it sounds thin compared to the raw signal. I'm starting to think it has something to do with the rca inputs on the audiophile. Music and everything else sounds great on the card but there's an issue when going in. I've been looking at getting a echo mia soundcard since it has the 1/4 inputs and they are balanced. Also, i want to get an m-audio dmp3 since it has balanced outputs. Would this solve my problem?

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Unbalanced ins shouldn't give you a thinner sound. Lower in level maybe, more susceptible to electrical interference maybe, but not 'thinner'.

Are you sure it's not just a drop in level?

 

[tone_aot]

I thought this might be the issue at first but it really is thinner. I turned up the volume to match the volume of the raw signal and it is different. I'm not sure what it could be. I cut a track with my mic over a friends house and it sounded great. I just plugged it into is yamaha aw16 and it sounded great. Even thru my behringer mixer it sounds great. But when i run it thru my soundcard it doesn't sound the same.

 

[tone_aot]

I might have it hooked up wrong so i'll tell ya what i have and somebody explain how it should be hooked up. I'm running my mic to my behringer mixer pre. On the mixer, i have main outs, ctrl outs, and tape in/out. I'm running the main outs to the rca ins on the audiophile. Then, i'm running the rca outs from the audiophile to the tape in on my mixer. I press down the button that says tape to ctrl room so that way the signal from the audiophile is not recorded when i record the mic. I run the ctrl outs to my monitors. Does this sound right?

 

[kojdogg]

Is it possible that you're monitoring the signal from the preamp (pre audiophile) and the signal after ad/da conversion (back out from the audiophile) at the same time? That might contribute to the sense that it's thicker rather than just louder-- there might be some very slight latency between the two signals acting almost like a flange.

 

[kojdogg]

If that is the case incidentally (and I may be talking out my arse here), then a preamp would help because you'd go mic->preamp->m-audio in and then m-audio->mixer->monitors/headphones out
could you borrow another little mixer or preamp to test this out?

 

[tone_aot]

Actually, the signal sounds thicker before it even enters the audiophile but what you said made me think. Maybe the reason the sound is thin after it goes thru the audiophile is because i might be recording a double signal. Wouldn't that cause a phase problem and make it sound thin?

 

[tone_aot]

I think i do need another preamp. Unfourtunately, i don't have another mixer to test it out right now. I think i'll save up and get that m-audio dmp3 and not mess with getting another soundcard right now.

 

[kojdogg]

Actually, the signal sounds thicker before it even enters the audiophile but what you said made me think. Maybe the reason the sound is thin after it goes thru the audiophile is because i might be recording a double signal. Wouldn't that cause a phase problem and make it sound thin?

that's what phase cancellation tends to do-- especially if it's really noticeable. if you can test it out (borrow another mixer or preamp) and separate the input preamp from your monitoring mixer, you might be totally right on.

 

[kojdogg]

I think i do need another preamp. Unfourtunately, i don't have another mixer to test it out right now. I think i'll save up and get that m-audio dmp3 and not mess with getting another soundcard right now.

Could you run the RCA outs from the M-Audio into a stereo and check it with headphones or something? Try it after recording vocs once the way you have it set up, and then once while monitoring through headphones plugged into the stereo. Play them both back either through the mixer or stereo and compare.
Edit to Clarify-- record vox twice once the way you have it set up, and then once with the mixer as the preamp, but the rca outs going into a stereo and listening while you record through headphones plugged into the stereo. i can be a little confusing sometimes.

 

[tone_aot]

I get it now! Thanks for your help! That's exactly what i needed to hear. In the future, i might look at getting one of those firewire interfaces so i can do everything with one unit.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

I think i'll save up and get that m-audio dmp3 and not mess with getting another soundcard right now.

I used a DMP-3 going into the unbalanced inputs of a Delta 1010LT and it was fine.

Pretty damn good in fact considering what this gear costs.

 

[tone_aot]

Could you run the RCA outs from the M-Audio into a stereo and check it with headphones or something? Try it after recording vocs once the way you have it set up, and then once while monitoring through headphones plugged into the stereo. Play them both back either through the mixer or stereo and compare.
Edit to Clarify-- record vox twice once the way you have it set up, and then once with the mixer as the preamp, but the rca outs going into a stereo and listening while you record through headphones plugged into the stereo. i can be a little confusing sometimes.

LOL!!! Your thinkin just like me! I tried that too. It's still the same. That phase cancellation idea sounds correct to me. I gotta get the dmp3 so i can record the right way!

 

[kojdogg]

no problem man!

 

[tone_aot]

I used a DMP-3 going into the unbalanced inputs of a Delta 1010LT and it was fine.

Pretty damn good in fact considering what this gear costs.

That's the reason i want that unit so bad. Everyones ravin about it! It's got to be good!

 

[Farview]

It sounds like you are listening to the vocal twice. You are probably using the direct monitor function on the soundcard and the monitor function in your software at the same time. The small delay between the two will make the vocal sound really thin and hollow.

 

[kojdogg]

LOL!!! Your thinkin just like me! I tried that too. It's still the same. That phase cancellation idea sounds correct to me. I gotta get the dmp3 so i can record the right way!

well if you did that though and there was still phase cancellation, then it probably would sound better when you used the stereo to monitor while recording, because the tape in might be what causes the phase cancellation...

 

[kojdogg]

It sounds like you are listening to the vocal twice. You are probably using the direct monitor function on the soundcard and the monitor function in your software at the same time. The small delay between the two will make the vocal sound really thin and hollow.

that makes a lot of sense

 

[tone_aot]

well if you did that though and there was still phase cancellation, then it probably would sound better when you used the stereo to monitor while recording, because the tape in might be what causes the phase cancellation...

Ok I feel dumn now!!! Sometimes my common sense slips out the backdoor. So, what should i do about this?

 

[kojdogg]

Ok I feel dumn now!!! Sometimes my common sense slips out the backdoor. So, what should i do about this?

Don't-- this stuff is real confusing at times.
I'd definitely try out what Farview is saying first-- make sure that this isn't happening "inside the box." Some software programs like Cakewalk's stuff have you set direct monitoring, and if your sound card also has a setting for this, they might interact like he says. Try turning one off and see if it makes a difference.