I fool myself

  • Thread starter Thread starter dobro
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dobro

dobro

Well-known member
I wish there was a 'psychology forum' on this site, but the mixing forum will do.

I fool myself. I think things are alright when they're not alright. For example, I was listening to some harmonies I'd done because someone in the clinic said they were a little off. Anyway, while I was listening to the harmonies and thinking 'yeah, a little off but it'll do' I suddenly heard a load of sibilance I hadn't noticed before. Why hadn't I noticed? Because I fool myself.

Well, okay, the more I listen and the more experience I get, the more I'll notice and correct. But it's worrying all the same. I'm starting to understand why recordists hire producers, and why engineers don't master their own work.
 
Hey Dobro, I've had the same thing happen to me. I always end up spending a lot of time on the things that need help, then, when I include them in the mix, they don't quite fit. especially after about 4-6 hours of mixing.
Have you ever picked up on a cibilant noise on a CD, and then it drives you crazy listening to it. You get that blown speaker thing going on in your ears.
 
Yeah, i recorded my dad recently and an acc. guitar track had some breath noise from his nose in the mic. Some one said it sounded like there was compressor pumping on a specific spot but for the life of me I couldn't hear it. I finally realized I had blocked it out because my brain had marked it acceptable. It was weird though no matter how hard I tried I couldn't hear it.
 
It's a universal problem, and it's the main reason you have to take frequent breaks when mixing, as well as continually checking the mix against reference CD's.

That's because the nature of psychoacoustics is that the human brain will adjust to almost any sound after a certain amount of time of continuous listening, and will filter out the anti-musical elements of the mix as well as fill in the missing features.

That's why even experienced mixers forced to work long hours can "finish" a mix, only to discover that the bass track was accidently muted the whole last 45 minutes they were working!
 
littledog said:
That's because the nature of psychoacoustics is that the human brain will adjust to almost any sound after a certain amount of time of continuous listening, and will filter out the anti-musical elements of the mix as well as fill in the missing features.
Click to expand...

Well isn't that just a kick in the ass!
 
littledog said:
It's a universal problem, and it's the main reason you have to take frequent breaks when mixing, as well as continually checking the mix against reference CD's.

That's because the nature of psychoacoustics is that the human brain will adjust to almost any sound after a certain amount of time of continuous listening, and will filter out the anti-musical elements of the mix as well as fill in the missing features.

That's why even experienced mixers forced to work long hours can "finish" a mix, only to discover that the bass track was accidently muted the whole last 45 minutes they were working!
Click to expand...
....and this causes alot of pro's to actually print several different mixes. One with the bass more fwd, or more compression on the guitars. If my memory is right, there can be as many as 6 to 10 different mixes printed. You can send them all to a Master guy and he can pick an choose the best one, and also there are things called stems that you can give to the ME. I have a habit of doing 3 mixes of the same song in a row, burn it to cd and do a what I call a walk around. I put it in the stereo in my living room and listen critically to how it translates in the center and corners of the room, dead spots, boominess and the ouchies of hf harshness. then Ill listen in the car, sometimes in the garage and while driving. Road noise can hide alot of bad mixing.

SoMm
 
Well, okay it's not just me and my self-deceiving personality then, but I don't want to limit this thing to mixing. I'm a homie - I do the whole shebang myself - so it's really important to get the recording phase RIGHT. Anybody remember that Billy Joel line:

'Get it right the first time that's the main thing'

But if you don't listen and you don't hear it, you don't correct and adjust it...

Let's take it one MORE step back to songwriting. The line in the song that doesn't match up to the rest of the song, but your attention never seemed to light on it until... when? You were mixing the song? Damn... I need help. LOL
 
i just saw the wilco film about the making of their new record........they basically engineered and mixed the whole thing themselves, but then jim o'rourke remixed it and brought out better dynamics to the songs........one of the members said something like, "we are each individually capable of being a producer, we know how to do it and all, but this is a good example of why bands should never produce their own material".........great movie
 
:D

Hahahaha, I never ever go to a cd-presentation.

A couple of days ago I recorded a big brass-band. For the mixing we hired a director, who has kind of credits in this field. Between the mixing stage an old guitarist friend came in, and was kind of surprised we hired this dude........fuck man, you can get a cd of brass bands at every sale....than you'll hear what it should sound like.... Well actually it ain't that simple...there are first,second and third lines in the arrangement, and the whole thing should be in balance....well who cares? The people that buy this cd? Get real...nobody is going to buy this shit ...KICK SLAM BANG....one guitarist out of the studio

Live is simple ain't it
 
Psycho???
When I mix:

- Can't do more then 1 song per day
- If I have to do more its gotta be at least five, 2 never works.
- If I focus on 'getting something to sound right" - it ends up to loud in the track, inevitably.
- Can't drink a lot of coffee, caffeine changes my perception of sound.
- Same goes for thee.
- Asperine, and any other drugs that contain asperine or ephidrine (like most cold medicine), totally fucks your hearing up.
- You cannot be tracking one day and mix the next, your ears need a break.
- After tracking a project, preferably do another project first before you start mixing the stuff, as your ears have gotten used to what the mixes for tracking sounded like.

what a job!!
 
Yo Dobro:

I use a large MARTINI, with two sweet onions on a toothpick, before I start mixing. [very difficult to find the onions but I have a site if anyone wants it.]

This causes a large relaxation of the Kloppman lobe in the brain which releases a hormone which doesn't really moan. It also opens the ears to unlimited capacities.

However, the next day, when I awake, and I play back the mix, I can't figure out what's going on.

Green Hornet:D :D :D :cool: :p :p
 
I have my own headaches..

Like when a song sounds incredible on its own but like garbage with all the other tracks that are supposed to go with it..

Or how about when, after hundreds of listens to a song at each step of the recording process, you find out when it's time to cut vocals that the tempo is too slow.

Or when you have everything sorted out and you think you realize the tempo is off, but you come back the next day to discover the tempo is good but everyone was out of tune.

Or when you have a killer mix for an atmospheric piece and you play it back in the car and realize the whole thing is in mono.

Something like what I've described happens to me with every song I work on.

Cy
 
i, too, in my meager attempts at recording have run into this time and time again-i especially want to second sjoko2 on the "getting something right" bit. when i listen to the recordings i've made in the past, most of which made me pretty happy at the time, and i receive lots of praise about from friends, i think they sound like utter shit. i can hear imperfections (speaking sympathetically) in the original takes, effects choices, mixdown, mastering, etc. nothing is right. and yet, there is a very clear progression showing vast amounts of improvement fomr song to song. the noise floor is more or less indistinguishable on my newer tracks. my hard drive isn't clacking on the newest few (haha). the guitars actually sound kind of like real guitars on the last few (i think my paying attention to the sound of the dynamics more than trying to "match" everything is to credit on that). some of my harder vocals don't completely saturate their respective tracks farther along. life is good. now if i could only say the same for my current skill level in recording... :rolleyes:
 
sjoko2 said:
Psycho???
When I mix:

- Can't do more then 1 song per day
- If I have to do more its gotta be at least five, 2 never works.
- If I focus on 'getting something to sound right" - it ends up to loud in the track, inevitably.
- Can't drink a lot of coffee, caffeine changes my perception of sound.
- Same goes for thee.
- Asperine, and any other drugs that contain asperine or ephidrine (like most cold medicine), totally fucks your hearing up.
- You cannot be tracking one day and mix the next, your ears need a break.
- After tracking a project, preferably do another project first before you start mixing the stuff, as your ears have gotten used to what the mixes for tracking sounded like.

what a job!!
Click to expand...
Not to mention having to deal with the "every track starts sounding like shit" phase of mixing a larger project, as your objectivity starts heading south the longer you work on it!

Grrr....!
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
Not to mention having to deal with the "every track starts sounding like shit" phase of mixing a larger project, as your objectivity starts heading south the longer you work on it!

Grrr....!
Click to expand...

At least........ often if you have a day like that, you walk in the next day, turn it on and you get a nice surprise as it sounds good
 
It drives me crazy,I listen to something I recorded one day,it sounds good.
I listen to it the next day,it sounds like crap!
That's why the mixing clinic is great,fresh ears do wonders!

Iv'e gone back to stuff laying around for years that I trashed and said,why did I ever give up on that.
I learned the hard way to keep everything.
I even have a song on my DAW thats just a bunch of rough ideas.

I'm working on a song with someone now,and they did a version with their part,but sang the lyrics also.
One listen and I could hear every mistake I made with the lyrics.
I listened to my version 50 times and couldn't hear it!
It really helped to hear someone else sing it.
 
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