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fretwire3d
New member
I'd put my '93 MIJ strat up against the entire new fender product line.
lesterpaul
New member
my 85 MIJ Esquire gets more time than my 02 MIA strat, i paid 180 for the MIJ and almost a grand for the MIA but they're both awesome guitars, and as someone else said, setup is key even if it came from the factory with a good setup, "your" setup could be drastically different. i just bought my son an affintiy tele to learn on but it's not far off from being a really nice guitar and it sold for 160'$s FENDER RULES... 
six
New member
I played the american series hss strat today... and it sucked. no, not really. but I didn't like its sound at all. the funky switch, which's so praised by fender, gives you a lot of PU-combinations that you don't need because they sound sooooo similar.
and I played a korean (???) made strat for half the price and it felt the same (which is good) but had a much better sound. well, I shouldn't say "better" - a sound that pleased me more.
damn. the more I play the less I know what axe to buy.
and I played a korean (???) made strat for half the price and it felt the same (which is good) but had a much better sound. well, I shouldn't say "better" - a sound that pleased me more.
damn. the more I play the less I know what axe to buy.
G
GuitarsFromMars
New member
um,resale...
mshilarious
Banned
um,resale...
Maybe we should ask the OP if his Ibanez has appreciated in the last THREE YEARS
lpdeluxe
The Precision Bass Guy
It's an interesting issue. Ibanez and the rest would not exist as solid-body electric guitar makers if Leo Fender hadn't started producing them and making a living from it. He prodded Gibson into building the Les Paul (over the objections of Gretsch, who thought solid body guitars were a travesty) and after that, the examples multiply.
Ibanez made some bucks making pretty good copies of Stratocasters back in the day. I'd guess they learned a little bit from Leo.
That said, I don't get along with Fender guitars: wrong scale, wrong sound, wrong feel. I had a Strat for a couple of years and it just didn't fit. I much prefer my Gibsons (LP and 335). On the other hand, I own three basses and they are all Fender Precisions: a '51 reissue, a Classic '50s, and a newer one with a fretless neck, and they kick any other bass in the @$$ (I say this having owned everything BUT Fender for a number of years).
Even though I'm not a Fender guitar guy, wouldn't it be a shame if Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Stevie Ray and rest were playing Ibanez? I'm not a fan of Ibanez, any more than I am of Fender, but by God the Fenders have personality!
Ibanez made some bucks making pretty good copies of Stratocasters back in the day. I'd guess they learned a little bit from Leo.
That said, I don't get along with Fender guitars: wrong scale, wrong sound, wrong feel. I had a Strat for a couple of years and it just didn't fit. I much prefer my Gibsons (LP and 335). On the other hand, I own three basses and they are all Fender Precisions: a '51 reissue, a Classic '50s, and a newer one with a fretless neck, and they kick any other bass in the @$$ (I say this having owned everything BUT Fender for a number of years).
Even though I'm not a Fender guitar guy, wouldn't it be a shame if Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Stevie Ray and rest were playing Ibanez? I'm not a fan of Ibanez, any more than I am of Fender, but by God the Fenders have personality!
Steve Henningsgard
New member
2005... plus, the OP was one of the most annoying idiot trolls I'd ever come across back then. In fact, he still holds up pretty well.
Milnoque
Resident Curmudgeon
Above is the fundamental TRUTH.
The secondary truth is:
An electric guitar is the guitar AND the amp.
If the two don't get along your fingers won't fix it. There are many guitarists who do not pay enough attention to amplifiers.
A good amp will make a bad guitar sound better than a bad amp will make a good guitar sound.
S
stevieb
Just another guy, really.
I know almost three years have passed since the post I am quoting, below, but I find it interesting that now, the "so expensive, retailers won't advertise the price" guitar is the only one that now HAS a price!
My, how times have changed.
My, how times have changed.
I'm sure prices are much different in Switzerland... so I'm not directing repy this at you. But I hear people bitching about Fender prices all the time and I don't understand it. You can get an American Fender Strat for under $1k. Less than $1k for a legendary, classic, famous, awesome guitar!
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/510590/
Now check out this other legendary, classic, famous, awesome guitar:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=guitar/search/detail/base_pid/517188/
Or this more modern yet still legendary, famous, awesome guitar that is so expensive, retailers won't advertise the price:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/519908/
In comparison, that "expensive" Fender is actually looking pretty cheap. I just can't understand why anyone who is serious about playing guitar would complain about a GREAT guitar costing less than $1k.
S
stevieb
Just another guy, really.
Maybe we should ask the OP if his Ibanez has appreciated in the last THREE YEARS
Oh, yeah? Few, if any then-new Fenders have appreciated in the last three years, either. They have taken the typical 50% value nose-dive that almost EVERYTHING does as soon as you take it out of the store, and have not recovered, yet. Will they? Impossible to tell, of course, but my money says not during our lifetime.
zazz
hmmmm
if you take a fender from the 60s which played great because of the craftsmaship and compare with custom shop today you will see a consistency of relative price and construction.
the non custom shop fenders are cut price.
if you really want to get into true fenders you really need to stay within custom shop...because that is the true fender.
you may as well pick up an ephiphone and say that you cant see what the point is in owning a gibson...
you get what you pay for.
the non custom shop fenders are cut price.
if you really want to get into true fenders you really need to stay within custom shop...because that is the true fender.
you may as well pick up an ephiphone and say that you cant see what the point is in owning a gibson...
you get what you pay for.
S
soundchaser59
Reluctant Commander
This is so misleading...... I always cringe when someone tries to make this claim.
You cant say this:
And then say this:
These are contradictions.
If the fundamental truth is that everything is in the fingers, then by all means if the guitar and amp dont get along, your fingers will fix it. According to the fundamental truth above, if your fingers are doing the right thing, the guitar and amp will never matter.
I must be doing something fundamentally wrong then. No matter what I do with my fingers, I just cant figure out how to make my humbucking Gibson thru the Marshall amp sound like a single coil Fender thru a Roadking! In my heart of hearts I know the fundamental truth that tone is in my fingers, but my fingers just cannot figure out how to make my 1971 plastic Sears Supro guitar thru my 1964 Champ sound like Ritenour meets Carlton. No wonder Steely Dan didn't reply to my audition tape.
I guess my fingers changed when I put that humbucker in the bridge position. In fact, my fingers change every time I switch from bridge to neck pickups. If I can just figure out how to use force of will to make my fingers change, I wont have to ever flip that pickup switch again! In fact, no more tone knobs need to be turned, and all those pedals can be liquidated. My Gawd, the ramifications of this fundamental truth are staggering!
And when Capt. Fingers puts his fundamental truth to work in the guitar store, I can blindfold myself and I will never be able to tell when he switches from Strat to LP and back, or from Fender Princeton to Epi Valve Jr and back, because tone is all in the fingers!
So we can all quit buying cool guitars and boooteek amps and just stick to the Walmart axe and the 6 inch battery powered Sears amps while we make guitar instructors rich trying to teach us how to contort our fingers to make all those different tones. That is a relief......
zazz
hmmmm
of course...but tone is a huuuuge part of it .. simply strike an open chord ...or even strike the open strings and you can hear big variations between high and low end.
but yeah ....a true muso can make the biggest piece of crap sound interesting and recordable by knowing the limitations of the instrument and coaxing it out and even getting the benifit of what might be in lesser hands a fault but in greater hands a feature.
but yeah ....a true muso can make the biggest piece of crap sound interesting and recordable by knowing the limitations of the instrument and coaxing it out and even getting the benifit of what might be in lesser hands a fault but in greater hands a feature.
mshilarious
Banned
E
edubabuba
New member
well ya fender is expensive because they are an Icon
You should be aware of Fenders different lines of guitars and where they come from
for instance the Mexican line of guitars is around 400 dollars new and the Korean line is above that by generally a few hundred dollars. (japan also ......)
Fender has an american line that is referred to as the highway one series and it is not far from the korean value mark. American made of course in corona california
And then we get to american and we see a number of quality and price changes here as the american line has a number of options.......A standard american strat cost around 1000 dollars and you can jump to a deluxe for around 1200 to 1300 and then the big jumps happen by getting into an artist series such as a clapton or Johnson 1500 to 1800 dollars as well as custom shop guitars. And a big thing to remember in regards to custom shops.........they are not so custom anymore as they also have turned into an assembly line...(to bad)
if you want some good info goto fenders web site and do some research
as for your ibanez sounding better, maybe
iam a fender head who has owned all levels of fender and now i swear to the american deluxes for quality for the buck
You should be aware of Fenders different lines of guitars and where they come from
for instance the Mexican line of guitars is around 400 dollars new and the Korean line is above that by generally a few hundred dollars. (japan also ......)
Fender has an american line that is referred to as the highway one series and it is not far from the korean value mark. American made of course in corona california
And then we get to american and we see a number of quality and price changes here as the american line has a number of options.......A standard american strat cost around 1000 dollars and you can jump to a deluxe for around 1200 to 1300 and then the big jumps happen by getting into an artist series such as a clapton or Johnson 1500 to 1800 dollars as well as custom shop guitars. And a big thing to remember in regards to custom shops.........they are not so custom anymore as they also have turned into an assembly line...(to bad)
if you want some good info goto fenders web site and do some research
as for your ibanez sounding better, maybe
iam a fender head who has owned all levels of fender and now i swear to the american deluxes for quality for the buck
M
MCI2424
New member
Fender stopped making guitars a long time ago. They sold their decals to anyone with a woodshop. I have yet to play one that is any good. Too bad.
zazz
hmmmm
you have yet to play a fender that is any good?? you really should get out more....
M
MCI2424
New member
I go to music stores every two weeks or so. I try so many and have yet to find a decent one I would actually buy. Fender is a disgrace in general.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
That's taking it a LITTLE too far, though.
The way I see it with the "tone is in the fingers" argument, is there's a couple things to consider. One, I agree that maybe, oh, 50% of the tone will come from the gear being used, and another 30-40% from the player's ability to dial in the gear so that it works together. However, there's still maybe that elusive 10%, and while from an absolute standpoint it's a very small part of the overall picture, from a relative "what do I dig about this sound?" angle, I think that we as listeners latch onto that last 10% way more than we do the first 50%, and more even then the next 30-40%. It's all in the details.
And, how you fret or play really DOES change how the guitars sound. I get a sharper attack on legato runs when my hands are freezing and my calluses are extra-hard. Try it. Try fretting with just the tips of your fingers vs. using more of the fleshy part of your fingertip. The first sounds crisper and snappier when hitting on or pulling off, while the later is a bit darker and woolier. Likewise, where your hand falls relative to the bridge when you're picking, by default, can radically change the way you sound, too - brighter towards the bridge, darker towards the neck. On top of that, your normal dynamic range - how hard you generally hit when you pick - will color the sound, too.
None of this stuff is night-and-day different, but it's all audible and it all adds up.
There's an additional aspect too, though - part of the "tone is in your hands" argument is also simply how you "control" how the guitar works, and how that interacts with your rig. I mean, take that Fender-into-Roadster rig, and jack the gain way up - unless your muting technique is very precise, the guitar will be blowing up in your hands because even the slightest ringing or scrape against the strings is going to be amplified and turn your scale runs into sludgy mud. If you can't control which strings ring and which strings are muted perfectly, then your tone is going to suffer in that sort of gain structure because aspects of your touch on the instrument will interfere with the way the notes ring out.
The obverse is true, too - plug that same Fender into a lightly-overdriven Deluxe Reverb, say, and then hand it to two different players. If one of them has very even, firm legato technique where he or she can excert a certain amount of control on the "attack" of hit or pulled notes, and has a powerful but flexible picking hand so he or she is adept at varying the amount of breakup when he or she hits the strings, then they'll work pretty well with this rig and have awesome tone. The other dude, meanwhile, might be a softer picker, and won't ever be able to make the tone sound as "explosive" as the first guy. Additionally, maybe their legato is a bit uneven, certainly not to the point where running through that Roadster you'd hear anything amiss, but enough that through that just-barely-breaking-up Deluxe, you're hearing a pretty dramatic change in how distorted the notes in a long flowing line is. Player A sounds powerful, fluid, and has great tone; Player B sounds chopy, uneven, and has less inspiring tone.
Gear matters, sure. So does knowing what to do with that gear. But your fingers ARE still part of the equation.
SHEPPARDB.
Well-known member
That is entirely untrue.A great carpenter cant build one off custom shit using a hacksaw and 16 penny nails, no more than a mason could carve stone with a rubber mallet and a plastic chisel.
I shouldnt say "entirely untrue", because the fingers and who they are attached to does make up a lot, but you just dont see a lot of great artist that settle for mediocre tools.