I can't write out a whole, finished song

Grey Angel

Grey Angel

Angel of Shredding
Why????? It's like all of my creative energy pours into 30 seconds of music, and then it just dies. DIES!!! I apparently have no ability whatsoever to "write a song", with a repeating chorus and all that. Any ideas how I can get better?
 
no one said it's easy

If there's a time of day when you're at your sharpest or most creative, strike while the iron is hot. For me, it's in the morning. Even if you don't have any time to record your idea with your instrument, hum your idea into your computer or cell phone or whatever and come back to it later.

It's not always convenient to flesh out ideas when they finally show-up, but at least get a skeletal version of the idea down somewhere so you can remember and come back to it later.

Good luck, and don't self-censor ideas that you initially think are cheesy or whatever. Give whatever comes into your head a chance.
 
Grey Angel said:
Why????? It's like all of my creative energy pours into 30 seconds of music, and then it just dies. DIES!!! I apparently have no ability whatsoever to "write a song", with a repeating chorus and all that. Any ideas how I can get better?
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Try taking your time, maybe. Not everyone puts out a quality song in 5 minutes.

There a famous story about an actual conversation between Bon Dylan and Leonard Cohen, two of the most successful and most prolific songwriters of the last 50 years. I don't remember exactly which exact songs they were talking about, but Cohen had asked Dylan how long it took him to write [Famous Song X]. Dylan replied, "About 3 minutes." Cohen was absolutely floored. Seeing that, Dylan asked Cohen in return how long it took him to write [Famous Song Y]. Cohen said, "About 3 years."

Do like gutta says, write in a notebook or record to a portable tape recordier or digital recorder your snippets and ideas as they come to you. Even if it's one line or one word or one little fill or just one idea you come across sometine during the way. Build on it if you can while the muse is there, but if/when you hit a block, put it down and move on to something else.

You may have several unfinished pieces in the pipeline at one time for a long time. You may find after a while that what you wanted in one song would actually work better in the other song, or even that maybe they should not be two different songs but could work by combining ideas into one song, or whatever.

Not everybody can vomit out a hit song in 3 minutes or even necessarily 3 days. If that's not your style, don't force it by trying to stick your creative fingers down your throat. If 3 years is good enough for the man who lives in the Tower of Song, it's good enough for me :).

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Try taking your time, maybe. Not everyone puts out a quality song in 5 minutes.



You may have several unfinished pieces in the pipeline at one time for a long time. You may find after a while that what you wanted in one song would actually work better in the other song, or even that maybe they should not be two different songs but could work by combining ideas into one song, or whatever.


G.
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Everything Glen said is true, but this snippet really hits home for me. Musical ideas do not necessarily emerge in a linear fashion.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
You may find after a while that what you wanted in one song would actually work better in the other song, or even that maybe they should not be two different songs but could work by combining ideas into one song, or whatever.
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That's what always happens to me. My latest song is actually pieces of about 3 different other songs that I thought would sound best in one song.

I rarely finish a song in one sitting. Usually I just come up with the main chord progression and build melodies off of that later on.
 
Somedays i can write very good songs off the top of my head, lyrics and melody at the same time whilst improvising. Other days i can barely string two sentences together. I think the key is being there when it happens. If you are not around your instrument when the creative juices flow then you will have to make do with humming melodies and lyrics and so on and hope that you remember to work on it later.
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Sometimes i write and never finish songs, maybe snipets, maybe almost entire verses, choruses or maybe bridges. They all get used somewhere down the line, usually to merge with other parts of songs that i never bothered finishing. Dont be afraid to leave a song undone but remember how it went and maybe it will work itself out. Some songs i will never finish. Others will come in the time it takes to play it. I dont care what way they come, im just glad that they are still coming and the well has'nt dried up yet.
 
Prem Ej.?
Maybe you've come up the verse, M8 & chorus on different days in different 30 sec spurts! You just haven't put the puzzle together.
 
Find somwone to bounce ideas off of....collabs can make for cool sounds. I've had a few riffs I couldn't get to go anywhere, tossed them out, and with input from another person, or even two, it changed into something pretty decent. ;)
 
Again to echo, take your time. Some of my tunes start getting written up to a year before I'm happy enough to track them and other come together in 30 minutes. I don't think trying toohardhelps either. You can't really force it. I've tried that before, everything turned out boring.

However, all I can say is thank god for the digital age where we can piece bits together and move our arrangements around without a whole bunch of hassle. It makes the writing process so much easier to be able to hear a rough idea of how things are going to work. I really couldn't be bothered if it was with tape. I can't remember the last time I had to write anything regarding the structure of a tune down on paper. Hell, with Cubase's play order track I don't even have to physically move anything until I'm happy.
 
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AGCurry said:
Well, if you come up with 30 good seconds, do what the Beatles did on Abbey Road. Make medleys!
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Hahahaha! Does the world really need another "Polythene Pam", the dottering grandmother of "Uncle Albert"? :D

G.
 
I think the best way to write lyrics are to a) set out to tell a story, or b) write any clever line as it comes to you, so next time when you just need that last line of a phrase that will be powerful, maybe you can find it in your notebook.

When writing music, come up with the basic chords and fit the lyrics into that. Then record the song, a basic bare-bones track. I like to just loop the song and play another instrument like another guitar or some drums. This is what works for me, I never really set out to write a song, I just wait until I like what naturally happens.

Maybe you're like me, just keep improvising over something until you like what comes out. I guess it's not really the normal way to do things, but as I said, it works for me so maybe it'll help you.
 
AGCurry said:
Well, if you come up with 30 good seconds, do what the Beatles did on Abbey Road. Make medleys!
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That's what I would suggest. Or just stick two of them together.

Since I am from DC, I can claim my songs are only 30 seconds because I need to represent :cool: Truth is I get bored with unnecessary repetition :o
 
Grey Angel. I'm the exact same way. It's ironic though because I've always written 100% of my bands' music. Spanning probably 5 bands, a few pretty successful.

For me there are 2 basic ways of completing songs..
If I'm dealing with a band, it comes down to taking that 30 seconds and jamming it out. Bring your part to your rehearsal space and play the part live on whatever instrument it may be. Someone else can add on as you play it over and over again. It's important to play it live on your instrument because as things are added on, the mood, groove, and feel will likely change a little. So you have to roll with it. The next part WILL come to you. Or maybe even someone else. Just be patient and don't burn yourself out. If it doesn't happen on the first night, play it everytime you get together with the band to keep it fresh in people's minds and at some point parts will get added and eventually the song will get finished. It may take awhile.

If you're completely writing alone and it's difficult to collaborate, then you use your studio to finish songs. Record everything. Like previously mentioned, even if it's on a cell phone or something. But ultimately you want to get it recorded in your studio asap. I've got a bunch of 30 second parts right now, some will be verses, chorus's and intro's outro's. I just don't know which is which just yet. Once you've got it on a multitrack platform you can really work it just like you would in the band rehearsal room. I pieced together a 16 song full length album by myself doing this. It takes a long time, but it's the right way to do it. The key is to never force a song. A lot of bad songs are written this way just to get them finished. That's the difference between ametuers and pros. Guys like Trent Reznor and Thom Yorke probably don't just sit down and write a complete song every time..

Another thing, don't ever LOSE the 30 second pieces you write. I'm guilty of this. I often come up with my best stuff when I'm lying in bed. Or I'll even create a song in a dream. But they fade away fast. Right now, I actually carry around a mini recorder and a small notebook. When melodies OR words come to me, I'm ready.
 
Oh yeah..

And think outside the box a little: Do you play one primary instrument? My main instrument is guitar. I tend to always write songs on guitar and I'm teaching myself not to do that. Try to write from some other instrument; bass, piano, etc. Then you can focus on baisc melodies more. Your lack of proficiency on the instrument may prove to be benficial.
 
maybe you should be a jingle writer. commercials don't last 30 seconds, so you've got music to spare.

just don't be a hack and take commercial songs and drop two or three notes from the melody so you don't get sued.
 
ez_willis said:
A.D.D.??? :confused: :p
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I know that's my problem! :rolleyes:

In all seriousness, my best work usually comes quick. Say under 5 minutes. I have had some really cool riffs that never went anywhere for 10 years then all of the sudden I finish them and they are great tunes.
 
All of Metallica's best ( = early ) work were all piece-meal. James Hetfield said that they would come up with 4 or 5 really cool riffs and then just paste them together and come up with a song. It's not a bad way to write, even if it's "unconventional". Two or three of my songs are pieces of 10 or 12 things I started writing and abandoned.
 
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