I am migrating from PC keyboard to a real controller...

YanKleber

YanKleber

Retired
Hello my friends!

I have so far recorded all my keyboard tracks with Fruity Loops sequencer and programming it with a PC keyboard and a mouse. Ugh!

Now I am interested on start using a real keyboard controller but I have some questions in my head that I hope you can help to clarify:

#1 I have seen that there are two types of controllers - the ones with only USB and the ones with USB plus MIDI-OUT where the first ones uses to be cheaper. For the control of computer plugins would these ones with only USB enough?

#2 I am divided between buying a Roland JU-06A "boutique" hardware module or getting a Softube Model 84 plugin. I am a vintage guy who really like to grab and slide knobs up and down, but I cannot ignore that today the JU-06A module would cost me today 7 times the Model 84 plugin not included the K25 mini keyboard, meaning that I still would have to buy a separate controller. I confess that I leaned to go for the M84. Opinions?

#3 My computer is a 10th generation i5 with 16Gb of RAM equipped with a small Behringer UCA-222 audio interface. If I go for the Model 84 plugin will my computer able to handle the controller signal with a latency low enough to not drive me crazy?

Thanks for reading!
 
I’m a bit confused. Do you want a real keyboard to connect to the system so you can play all the computer sounds, or are you looking for an extra plugin? The Roland has a keyboard, small, but functional, but the softube plugin? Then you mention the k25 keyboard? Products that make sounds themselves usually mean a little bit more DAW fiddling because the keyboard needs to come up in the DAW, and then only if you want, will it be looped back to that device to make a noise. The Roland may have, I don’t know, have all it’s knobs and faders sent out as individual controllers that can be recorded, so they should be able to be remapped and be able to control features in other plugins? That could be useful. Mini keys are rotten if you can play the piano, but many people can get used to them. You have so many products to choose from, what do you want to do?
 
I have a Roland PC100 that I purchased in 89'. It has MIDI out only since it has no sound. It was an early controller I purchased for a sequencer software. It doesn't do much other than play notes and it is touch sensitive. That type of controller is all you really need unless you want to drive the sound of your keyboard or sound module.

Sound modules are external hardware that were the first "plugins" for MIDI. There are still people who like the physical hardware, but VSTi's are really the same, just software version. I think playing the MIDI with a keyboard gives a better feel than pure hand drawn sequencing. Once you have a decent take, you can edit the track. I think therefore the main function you want it a touch sensitive keyboard. After that it is a function of how much you can control your DAW with the "controller".

My PC100 doesn't control anything but MIDI input, but I have it close to my desk so I only use it to play synth parts. Hopefully this helps a little.
 
Well, I ended buying an Arturia Minilab 3.

minilab3_05.jpg

Initially I was after a true sized keys controller but after to watch some videos about this little guy I got totally sold. One of the things that made me to decide for it was that beside the USB interface it has a midi-out port too meaning that if in the future I decide to buy a physical module I will be fine. Also the extra controls (knobs, faders and pads) and especially the software included ~ Analog Lab Intro ~ made all the difference. It comes with a bunch of vintage keyboard emulators that regardless being limited in the number of available presets yet seems that it will be more than enough for my home production!

At first I was thinking of buying the Model 84 (Softube), the TAL-U-No-LX or the DCO-106 (Cherry Audio) plugins but I decided to give the Analog Lab a chance first because maybe it will fulfill all my needs.

The part I liked more is that the panel of the controller is fully integrated to the software so you can tweak the presets directly in the real knobs and faders, so it updates the screen interface in real time while you mess with the controls. That's exactly what I was after: take some distance from the hand drawing sequence and get back into the physical interaction with some hardware.
 
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rob aylestone said:
I’m a bit confused. Do you want a real keyboard to connect to the system so you can play all the computer sounds, or are you looking for an extra plugin? The Roland has a keyboard, small, but functional, but the softube plugin? Then you mention the k25 keyboard? Products that make sounds themselves usually mean a little bit more DAW fiddling because the keyboard needs to come up in the DAW, and then only if you want, will it be looped back to that device to make a noise. The Roland may have, I don’t know, have all it’s knobs and faders sent out as individual controllers that can be recorded, so they should be able to be remapped and be able to control features in other plugins? That could be useful. Mini keys are rotten if you can play the piano, but many people can get used to them. You have so many products to choose from, what do you want to do?
Click to expand...
LoL, sorry! My question was about the physical controller but I was thinking of buying an analog synth emulator plugin TOO. That's why I mentioned the Model 84. It seems that suddenly I mixed the both subjects and so I apologize if I confused you! o_O
 
Easily done! The vital thing is that the thing you use must be nice to play - as I said, mini keys can be fine, but I have big chunky fingers so full size keys are vital for me.
 
rob aylestone said:
Easily done! The vital thing is that the thing you use must be nice to play - as I said, mini keys can be fine, but I have big chunky fingers so full size keys are vital for me.
Click to expand...
I understand completely. Well I am not a keyboard player though, instead I am a home producer whose main instrument is electric guitar. My main goal is write and record my own songs (I am going to start my third album) and my "studio" is actually my home office where I work online as a computer coder and the space is quite limited in size so picking a small controller was a great addition. I confess that have owned an Juno-106 and a Poly-800 in the 1980s decade, turned me into a fan of full sized keys (to not mention an extensive keyboard with a lot of keys) but the case is that I found myself in a crossroad where I could buy a cheap full-sized key controller without any knob or fader (my choice in this case would be the Nektar SE49) or a smaller controller from a better brand with all these extra controls. My real wish was to get the Arturia Keylab Essential 49 that has a big keyboard with 49 full sized keys plus all the nice controls, but it costs almost the double of the price. Since I am a bit volatile with my hobbies I decided to start with its small brother and if I like it I can upgrade in a few months to the big one. 8-)
 
YanKleber said:
Well, I ended buying an Arturia Minilab 3.

minilab3_05.jpg
Click to expand...
Looks very dinky, and portable. I like full size keys though.
 
kip4 said:
I have the minilab3 also my first real keys and controller combo.
I love it. How’s it going with you?
Click to expand...
Actually I placed the order before yesterday and it's still on its way. The tracking number says that it'll be here by Monday. I am anxious to put my hands on it!:listeningmusic:

EDIT: I just received an automatic message from the shipping company saying that it will be delivered TODAY! :guitar:
 
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So! My controller has arrived yesterday and it took me a little while to get it properly working either with FL and Reaper, the two DAWs I use. I was so frustrated trying to figure out what was going on that at a certain point I even suspected that I had received a defective unit and considered to return it to the store. Fortunately I took a break, and today, in the second attempt, I got lucky. I will describe the step by step to setup the controller software as well FL and Reaper with the hope that it may help someone else. 8-)

Arturia setup - This video helped me with this part.

1) Connect the Arturia MK 3 to the computer with the USB cable that comes with it
2) Go to their website, login in your account and register the product
3) Download Analog Lab Intro, install and activate it
4) Download Arturia Midi Control Center, install it (agree when it asks to update firmware)
5) Hold your horses and don't rush to you DAW yet! First test the controller directly with the Analog Lab Intro and ensure that all keys, knobs and faders are responding
6) If it doesn't ensure that it has the proper MIDI settings: click the icon with the three horizontal dashes at the left side of the "ANALOG LAB INTRO" name in blue and pick the option "Audio MIDI Settings". Ensure that "Minilab3 MIDI" is checked.
7) You should be OK now!

Fruity Loops setup

1) I suggest you use ASIO4ALL
2) In FL, go to the menu Options -> MIDI settings
3) In the "Input" section ensure that ALL "MiniLab" options are set to "Active" (click the "Enable" checkbox)
4) In the "Controller type" list choose "(generic controller)"
5) Now in your actual Minilab controller hold "Shift" key and press "Prog" (third pad) until it displays "DAW".
6) Back to FL open the Step Sequencer (F6) and insert/replace the "Analog Lab V" from the instruments list - at this point the piano KEYS should work but the knobs and the faders should not. No panic, we will take care of it right now.
7) Ensure that the "Analog Lab V" VST screen is being displayed. Now to make faders and knobs work, first click the small icon at the top of FL screen that looks like a joystick (old version) or a mixer knob (new version). It is in the same group as the link and metronome icons. When you click it, the led aside it will lit.
8) Now using your mouse click and turn a bit every one of the 8 knobs in the screen interface one by one (not the controller, in your VS on the screen). Doing it you are saying to FL that you want to map those controllers. You will notice that a text will appear in the top of the screen and then will scroll up and fade down, meaning that FL got your command. It will happen for each knob you click and turn.
9) Now get back to the joystick/knob icon and right-click it. It will show a context menu. Pick the option "Override generic links". A small window will display. Don't touch it.
10) Now slightly turn the knobs of your actual Arturia Controller in the same order as you touched their respective knobs in the screen interface. After you turn the last knob everything should be configured and everything should work fine now, meaning that when you move the knobs in the controller the virtual knobs will move together on screen. Try it.
11) Repeat the steps 6-9 for the faders and you're done.
12) The best part is that you just need to do it once as FL will remember your settings from now on.

Note: I still use an old version of FL (vs. 10) and I realized that if you turn the knobs of the controller too quickly they will turn funky in FL, so to avoid it just turn your knobs a bit slower and everything will be fine. It won't happen in the faders though. I don't know if the Image Line team fixed it in the newest versions.

Reaper setup

1) I suggest you use ASIO4ALL
2) In Reaper, go to Options -> Preferences -> Device. Ensure that "Audio system" is set to ASIO and that "Enable inputs" is checked
3) Go to Options -> Preferences -> MIDI Devices. Ensure that all Minilab 3 options are set to "Enabled". Close Preferences.
4) Add a new track, and click the red "arm" button (it should lit on)
5) Aside it click "I/O" and in the MIDI section (right hand) change "<no output>" to "Minilab 3 MIDI". Close it.
6) Click "USB Audio CODED 1" and choose Input: MIDI -> Minilab 3MIDI -> All Channels
7) Right aside it, click the small loudspeaker icon (looks like a triangle pointing to the right). It's to activate monitoring then you can hear what you play. Ensure it's lit in green.
8) Click the "FX" button and then add "Arturia Analog Lab V" from the list. Now the piano keys already should work but the knobs and the faders will not. Again, no panic.
9) In your actual Minilab controller hold "Shift" key and press "Prog" (third pad) until it displays "Arturia". This is a bit tricky because actually you should use "DAW" mode (the "Arturia" mode should be only to play live directly with the Analog Lab Intro app) exactly as we did in Fruity Loops but for some mysterious reason the only way of having the knobs and faders of your controller linked to Reaper is setting it to "Arturia" mode. If you're trying to set it up it with another DAW always try the two modes and see what works for you.

Cheers! 😁
 
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Spitfire Audio use a very similar system to get your controller to be recognised. I'm glad you got it done.

The only controller I have ever failed with (and loads of people are quite good with them) were the old Behringher controller panels - the slide fader and rotary knob versions. At that time - you had to type in loads of code to make them send what your DAW needed, nowadays, it's the reverse - the DAW can be tweaked like you explain. They had a floor controller too that needed this silly sort of programming. I'm glad that moved on!
 
Are you happy with the minilab now it’s got some functionality.

it’s a super little unit imo.
I have a couple of other Akai midi controllers too.
Have fun
 
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