I am losing my sanity producing my own music, please help.

T

Toasta Whales

New member
I love producing songs and I have been for at least 3-4 years (I'm 17) but I just can't record "real songs" at all. I've been recording a new set of songs I've written since March and I've only been able to complete two of them, one with crap quality. I have had to abandon my greatest pieces out of frustration and "over doing" them. Some of my other songs sound good but just get completely out of beat, to the point where I'd have to rerecord the entire song. I can't stand it anymore, I love producing, but I just need structure, and I just feel like giving up.

(I'm actually quite good at mixing though I only have a basic condensor mic, USB mixer, a set of M-Audio speakers, and Sony Acid Music Studio)

(My music is kind of folk pop without very much guitar; mostly synthensized instruments with tons of sound effects, I play all the instruments)


I seriously just need recommendations (how to get things on beat, record quickly with my equipment, etc)
 
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Toasta Whales said:
..I love producing songs and I have been for at least 3-4 years (I'm 17)
..I've been recording a new set of songs I've written since March and I've only been able to complete two of them,
..I have had to abandon my greatest pieces out of frustration and "over doing" them.
..Some of my other songs sound good but just get completely out of beat, to the point where I'd have to rerecord the entire song.
..(My music is kind of folk pop without very much guitar; mostly synthensized instruments with tons of sound effects, I play all the instruments)

I seriously just need recommendations (how to get things on beat, record quickly with my equipment, etc)
Click to expand...
First off its a lot to bite off- writing, recording, learning to play (not just guitar' or whatever BTW). You been at it a few years- not all that long.
Collect ideas and do partials if need be, keep moving ahead and perhaps rather than get bogged down, move on, collect and revisit'. Learn to play in time and stuff, in the mean time things come together.
Best guess. ;)
 
mixsit said:
First off its a lot to bite off- writing, recording, learning to play (not just guitar' or whatever BTW). You been at it a few years- not all that long.
Collect ideas and do partials if need be, keep moving ahead and perhaps rather than get bogged down, move on, collect and revisit'. Learn to play in time and stuff, in the mean time things come together.
Best guess. ;)
Click to expand...


This is actually my first set of recording actual pop songs, unlike the experimental/instrumental/humour recordings I had been recording in the past.
 
Not sure why the timing is off. I have used the free audacity and have had the same trouble with that program. Without wasting a lot of $$$$ buy a cheap 4 track and record on that. you shouldn't have timing problems. Keep it up. As I well know it is a never ending process to learn.
 
Hey Toasta.. It may seem like it's not coming as fast as you'd like it to, but keep a few things in mind.

Some people here have literally been doing this stuff since before you were born, and they STILL have frustrations and limitations with it. (Crap.. i'm one.. am i really THAT old?)

Just keep at it. Read articles, magazines, books, web sites on playing, recording, engineering, producing, etc.

Practice playing to a metronome if you find your tracks get off-rhythm. And keep at it.

Hope this doesn't come accross as condescending, cause i don't mean it to. You might be further ahead at 17 than I am at umm.. more than double your age. lol.

No magic secret solution, just hours, and meaningfull play/work can get you further.

... and more gear... but at this point it doesn't sound like that's the limiting factor.
 
Make sure you record a 'click track' during your first recording pass. IF you find yourself getting 'off-beat' form it, it is a latency problem with your computer. There are many threads in this forum about dealing with latency, do a search.
 
You sound like you are putting too much pressure on yourself.

Try stripping everything back and making it simple so you can remember what drives you to make music in the first place.

Try setting up a simple beat with a drum machine, come up with a sparse riff on top of it with your main instrument and then improvise some overdubs with other instruments.
If you stick with the drum machine beat it should all be in time and you might come up with something fresh that inspires you further.
 
mjbphotos said:
Make sure you record a 'click track' during your first recording pass. IF you find yourself getting 'off-beat' form it, it is a latency problem with your computer. There are many threads in this forum about dealing with latency, do a search.
Click to expand...

Is this your problem? Can you give us more information about what you mean by off the beat?
 
My songs lose a load of feel once I click track. It's actually very complicated to put in feel, pauses, little bridges when your beat is going, 'Clack click click click, clack click click click.'
 
Same here. I don't use a click exactly though...just a drum beat or something like that...but even that can be very restrictive.
 
For those who cannot stay with a click track, try doubling or even quadrupling the tempo of the click. I don’t mean change the tempo of your song, only double-time the click rhythm. The faster the click track goes the easier it is to stay with.

If you still cannot stay with it then perhaps you are in the studio prematurely. You should go back to the practice room and work on your rhythm and tempo skills.

I am not sure I am buying that "lack of feel" excuse either. I've played instruments on lots of songs using a click track and they have wonderful groove and feel. Perhaps you are trying too hard or paying too much attention to staying exactly with the click. Don't think about it so much. Don't hear the click, just feel the click as if it were an instrument. Play from your heart, not your brain. You just need to immerse yourself into the song more while recording.
 
Toasta Whales said:
I love producing songs and I have been for at least 3-4 years (I'm 17) but I just can't record "real songs" at all. I've been recording a new set of songs I've written since March and I've only been able to complete two of them, one with crap quality. I have had to abandon my greatest pieces out of frustration and "over doing" them. Some of my other songs sound good but just get completely out of beat, to the point where I'd have to rerecord the entire song. I can't stand it anymore, I love producing, but I just need structure, and I just feel like giving up.

(I'm actually quite good at mixing though I only have a basic condensor mic, USB mixer, a set of M-Audio speakers, and Sony Acid Music Studio)

(My music is kind of folk pop without very much guitar; mostly synthensized instruments with tons of sound effects, I play all the instruments)


I seriously just need recommendations (how to get things on beat, record quickly with my equipment, etc)
Click to expand...


Try recording a simple little tune with the Clicktrack

It could be worth checking out the latency settings (as mjbphotos suggests)
also make sure you are using ASIO Drivers, with the latency set as low as possible.

Also, depending on the software you are using, it is possible that your MIDI notes played via a VST might be Quantized automatically without you realising it. The Quantizing (or automatic correction of notes) would throw things out of sync with the unquantized Audio parts
 
Click tracks tend to give a false sense of hurried-ness. I'm not sure, for example, if Gilmour used a click track/timer/hat beat when he played the intro for "Shine on You Crazy Diamond.'
 
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nzausrec said:
Click tracks tend to give a false sense of hurried-ness. I'm not sure, for example, if Gilmour used a click track/timer/hat beat when he played the intro for "Shine on You Crazy Diamond.'
Click to expand...

I agree with you totally, but as a means to test whether his problem is actually related to latency/computer setup it's a good idea

In otherwords when he knows he recorded something exactly on the click
and then plays it back he can determine if there is some sort of latency problem

I also think that he should record one MIDI Track (with no Audio track) as well as one Audio track (with no MIDI tracks) - then compare the results to determine if the problem is just happening with MIDI or Audio tracks or both

Getting back to the Click track, yes I agree.
In fact we once originally recorded our signature track without a clicktrack and tried to re-record it a few years later with a Clicktrack.
Suprise surprise, the version recorded with the Click sounded hurried and lifeless.
 
Wickermusic said:
by nzausrec "Click tracks tend to give a false sense of hurried-ness"...

I agree with you totally, but as a means to test whether his problem is actually related to latency/computer setup it's a good idea

In otherwords when he knows he recorded something exactly on the click
and then plays it back he can determine if there is some sort of latency problem

I also think that he should record one MIDI Track (with no Audio track) as well as one Audio track (with no MIDI tracks) - then compare the results to determine if the problem is just happening with MIDI or Audio tracks or both

Getting back to the Click track, yes I agree.
In fact we once originally recorded our signature track without a clicktrack and tried to re-record it a few years later with a Clicktrack.
Suprise surprise, the version recorded with the Click sounded hurried and lifeless.
Click to expand...
You don't need a click track to determine latency. That's almost absurd.

I'd also suggest that it isn't the click tracks fault your redone version sounded hurried. I'd say the musicians need practice and the click track just proves it. What if your drummer played in timing? Would you have had the same hurried and lifeless version?

Timing is timing. A click track is just a tool to guide you. You don't have to match it beat for beat although that may just be in your best interest.

In my experience, the people that can't play to a click track either need practice or are on drugs(& let's include alcohol here) or both and unfortunately most of the time it's both.
 
NYMorningstar said:
You don't need a click track to determine latency.
Click to expand...

True, but for this particular person, in this instance it would make things clear as he would have a Ruler to measure his timing against.

NYMorningstar said:
That's almost absurd.
Click to expand...
Harsh words for someone who is just trying to help someone else.
His problem might have nothing to do with Latency and could be related to Quantisation..... In this case a click would help.... especially a novice

NYMorningstar said:
I'd also suggest that it isn't the click tracks fault your redone version sounded hurried. I'd say the musicians need practice and the click track just proves it. What if your drummer played in timing? Would you have had the same hurried and lifeless version?

Timing is timing. A click track is just a tool to guide you. You don't have to match it beat for beat although that may just be in your best interest.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with you there. On the second recording of the track there were a lot of other factors at play, we had a new drummer and were definately out of practice
 
I love the way everybody is speculating and debating over just what the OP meant by 'out of beat", which could mean anything, and yet nobody has bothered to get anything further from the OP to try and narrow it down (ido1957 did question somewhat, but that query seemed to go nowhere.) Not to mention we haven't even heard from the OP for a week while all this debate goes on.

We all have our pet ideas and suspicions as to what's going on. I think that a guy who thinks that he's "producing" music at the age of 14 has no idea of what music production actually entails and what talents are required, and that is probably a leading indicator of the nature of the problem, but I could be wrong; this guy could be the next Mozart for all I know. The point is everybody is debating solutions without actually troubleshooting the problem.

So, Whales, if you're still reading this stuff, could you describe/explain a little more about what you mean by your songs "getting out of beat"? How do you meant that?

G.
 
nzausrec said:
My songs lose a load of feel once I click track. It's actually very complicated to put in feel, pauses, little bridges when your beat is going, 'Clack click click click, clack click click click.'
Click to expand...

That because you should be going 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and ...

...or get a program that lets you change the sound. But even if your songs have a "feel" to them, you should still end up in time, unless you are intentionally doing something that is out of time, at which point you need to program your click track to account for that.
 
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