I am about to record a baby grand piano with a very stupid mic setup

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shmaller

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At my disposal are:
  • 1x AKG Perception 220 LDC
  • 1x Oktava Mk 12 SDC
  • many SM57s
I'm planning to record with the lid open, put two SM57s directly behind the hammers, one on the bass side and one on the treble side. Then maybe the Mk 12 in one of the holes? or centrally in the piano body and a bit elevated from the strings. Then the 220 a few feet back in the room.

I anticipate to pan the 57s pretty far L and R, and the Mk 12 and 220 center. Definitely going to test for phase problems between the Mk 12 and the 220.

Oh, and I only have a 2i2. There is a mixer available but I haven't gotten the chance to check if I can use it as an interface, or if it is only going to give me the mixdown L and R. So I might be stuck with my mix decisions in the mixer.

Wish me luck lol.
 
Just do a youtube search for 'micing a grand piano'.
There's a load of informative vids.
 
Why not get a Behringer UMC404HD and record four mics separately?
 
Actually I got my hands on a 4-channel interface :guitar:

I wish I had multiple SDCs or LDCs instead of multiple dynamic mics, but we're gonna rock with what we've got.
 
What do you want it to sound like? Elton John on stage or Lang lang in a concert hall?

If you just want the modern close mic sound, pop a couple in as you mention - BUT - how looked after is the piano - too close to the hammers, well, actually the dampers and every pedal can result in a kerthunk on release. In all fairness - a pair of 57s are actually fine - but where they are is pretty important for odd noises - but NOT so much for the sound, as most comes from the sound board, not the direct strings. There is no rule for pianos apart from listen with your ears first, then try something and test. Beware of panning - you can end up with a totally huge piano sound, the width of your monitors that sounds very unreal.
 
After spending some minutes with my head inside the piano, here was what I came up with for a mic arrangement.

Gonna mix it next week and see what came out!
 

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After spending some minutes with my head inside the piano, here was what I came up with for a mic arrangement.

Gonna mix it next week and see what came out!
That’s a lot of mics -
 
This subject came up here recently and Rob was as usual helpful. As a "vintage" keyboard player who has had the opportunity to play acoustic pianos all around the world I can say for certain there is no comparison between an acoustic piano and and the digital vst type pianos (which are amazing) when playing live....

That said this is where it gets dodgy..

I posed the question below to Gemini

I believe at this juncture "better" is subjective and not a real thing. I Love the sound a 3 meter long grand piano live. The resonation of the bass strings vibrates through your body. ..If you were to take the greatest recording engineer ever and have him provide you with his best ever recording of an acoustic piano, then find a VST that sounds very close.. Played back through the same speakers at the same volume it will be very hard if not impossible to accurately distinguish one from the other consistently.



Gemini replied...



That is a perfectly articulated point, and you've hit on the fundamental limitation of recorded audio versus live, physical experience.

You are absolutely correct: at this level, "better" is subjective because the criteria shift from pure tonal accuracy to physical and emotional impact.

The Physicality Gap​

The experience you describe with the 3-meter Petrof is often called the physical resonance or tactile feedback.

  1. Acoustic Physics: When a large grand piano like a Petrof is played, the sound isn't just emitted from the strings; the soundboard and the entire wooden cabinet vibrate powerfully. These vibrations are low-frequency, high-amplitude waves that are felt through the air, the floor, the piano bench, and directly in the player's body.
    • This is a multi-sensory experience that no microphone can truly capture.
  2. Playback Limitations: When you record this sound, it is reduced to an electrical signal (audio) and then played back through speakers.
    • Speakers: Even the highest-end studio monitors or PA systems are designed to reproduce sound pressure waves that travel through the air to your eardrums. They are not designed to recreate the physical sensation of a massive wooden box vibrating through the floor and directly against your body. To achieve that sensation, you would need dedicated low-frequency transducers (subwoofers) and a room that could handle the volume, and even then, it's a simulation, not the original physical coupling.
    • Low Frequencies: The deepest sub-bass notes (e.g., below 40 Hz) that contribute to that chest-vibration feeling are notoriously difficult to capture cleanly with microphones and even more difficult to reproduce faithfully on consumer-grade playback systems.

The Recording Conclusion​

Your belief that it is "literally impossible to consistently accurately define a difference audibly" in a recording between a real piano and a top VST is a strong statement that many audio engineers and producers now agree with.

For the Listener (A-B Test): In a high-quality mix, stripped of the physical resonance, a modern, well-programmed VST can often sound indistinguishable from a meticulously recorded acoustic piano. The VST offers perfect sonic consistency (no tuning issues, no random noise, perfect mic placement) that an acoustic recording struggles to match without significant post-production.

For the Player (The Live Experience): However, nothing can replace the feedback loop of an artist creating sound on a real, vibrating acoustic instrument. That feeling is the one piece of the puzzle that VSTs, no matter how good the sample or key action, cannot fully deliver on the recording side.
 
What do you want it to sound like? Elton John on stage or Lang lang in a concert hall?

If you just want the modern close mic sound, pop a couple in as you mention - BUT - how looked after is the piano - too close to the hammers, well, actually the dampers and every pedal can result in a kerthunk on release. In all fairness - a pair of 57s are actually fine - but where they are is pretty important for odd noises - but NOT so much for the sound, as most comes from the sound board, not the direct strings. There is no rule for pianos apart from listen with your ears first, then try something and test. Beware of panning - you can end up with a totally huge piano sound, the width of your monitors that sounds very unreal.
This was very helpful to consider as I was setting them up, thanks very much for the advice. I did initially hear some key clacking and rearranged to mitigate it.

That’s a lot of mics -
Yeah I had no idea what any of them would sound like so I wanted to capture as much as I possibly could haha. I was kicking myself for not getting the matched pair of Oktava Mk 12s, if I had that I probably would have just gone with the two SDCs. I got that mic to record acoustic guitars and I really like it for that.

Anyway. Now I'm mixing it and I'm not too familiar with that either, so doing some experimentation with mic levels and how to EQ each mic.

It's not my song, otherwise I'd upload a snippet. I'll point to it once my friend publishes it though.
 
The feel of the keyboard is important too.
I have the Kawai MP11, with real wooden keys.
As you depress a key slowly, you feel it click a bit, just like a real piano key.
Close your eyes and you're sitting at a grand.

Glad to see you're getting somewhere.
 
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The feel of the keyboard is important too.
I have the Kawai MP11, with real wooden keys.
As you depress a key slowly, you feel it click a bit, just like a real piano key.
Close your eyes and you're sitting at a grand.

Glad to see you're getting somewhere.
 
I've been digging around and finally found a project from 2016 where we had my friend Grant play his Yamaha grand at his house for a recording we were doing, but despite it being a really nice piano, the room was hard walled and rectangular and it didn't sound quite right, so we re-recorded it at the studio with a nice master keyboard. I've cut out the solo, and taken the MIDI performance and stuck it on my current favourite sample the NI Noire, and also used the same track on Pianoteq 9 which is a synthesised piano VSTi - the track is mics (2 x AKG C451 probably, but could have been 414s - can't remember) followed by sample, then the synthesised.
 

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