Hypothetical Ooopsy

[ridgeback]

Lets say I've got my AT3035 patched into my ART Pro with phantom applied there then into my ProjectMix I/O. Then lets say someone hits the phantom button on the ProjectMix applying to all 8 inputs. Is something going to blow up? Well, it did.......the ART blew up. I'm trying to figure out if this was a fluke or user error on the part of my partner.

 

[Reggie]

I would say feeding 48V into the OUPUTS of the ART would be a bad thing. Prolly fried a little opamp or something.

 

[bennychico11]

where are you plugging your ART into on the M-Audio?

The Art is sending out a line level signal, and you'll need to plug it into a line level input. It appears your Project Mix accepts line level input at the 1/4" connections only.
And phantom power is only going to be applied to the XLRs. So, provided you are plugging it in correctly, no phantom power should be touching the Art.

Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if the ART has some protection on the outputs.
Double check for user error

 

[dementedchord]

while admittedly it's not the smartest thing you've ever done i'm kinda surprised that it fried anything.... but then again there's gotta be something left out to keep the price down i suppose...

 

[mattkw80]

How did this end up ?

Did you double check ?

 

[ridgeback]

where are you plugging your ART into on the M-Audio?

The Art is sending out a line level signal, and you'll need to plug it into a line level input.

The ProChannel is sending out balanced XLR.

It appears your Project Mix accepts line level input at the 1/4" connections only.

I was told if I went balanced XLR out of the ProChannel, I should patch balanced XLR into PM I/O. In other words keep it balanced throughout the signal chain.[/quote]

 

[ridgeback]

How did this end up ?

Did you double check ?

Never got an answer from ART. They just sent us a new one. Now so we're on the same page......

..............balanced XLR.....................balanced XLR.......................
AT3035-------------------------ART-------------------------------PM I/O
.................................48v applied...........................accidental 48v


What do you think? Duct tape over the phantom button on PM I/O?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

AT3035-------------------------ART-------------------------------PM I/O
What do you think? Duct tape over the phantom button on PM I/O?

Whoa. If you turned phantom power on on the ProjectMix and you blew up the ART, then it sounds like you're plugging the ART into a Mic In and not a Line In on the PM. You shouldn't be doing that at all.

It looks like the PM has individual Mic/Line switches for their XLR inputs; make sure the channels coming out the Pro MPA (I assume its an MPA and not a VLA, right?) are set to "Line" on the PM. Duct tape those into place if you must.

G.

 

[bennychico11]

The ProChannel is sending out balanced XLR.

I was told if I went balanced XLR out of the ProChannel, I should patch balanced XLR into PM I/O. In other words keep it balanced throughout the signal chain.

the 1/4" should accept balanced inputs too

 

[Fletcher]

The Art is sending out a line level signal, and you'll need to plug it into a line level input. It appears your Project Mix accepts line level input at the 1/4" connections only.
And phantom power is only going to be applied to the XLRs. So, provided you are plugging it in correctly, no phantom power should be touching the Art.

Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if the ART has some protection on the outputs.
Double check for user error

The ART most likely has a cute little IC op-amp working as a differential amplifier for the output on that thing... chances are better than even that when the phantom power hit that op-amp it took it out. Units that have output transformers wouldn't have been bothered by the phantom power thing as transformers block DC [phantom power is +48 volts of DC] so they're not at risk, but units without a transformer are at risk.

The MFG. could have put "DC blocking capacitors" in the signal path but ones that actually sound good enough to use are fairly expensive parts [which would increase the retail price of the unit... much like transformers would increase the retail price of the unit... which means they would sell fewer units and make less money in the process... not what the shareholders and investors in the company want to hear].

I don't know about this specific M-Audio box... if the inputs are balanced then get [or make] an adapter cable from XLR to 1/4" "TRS" [stands for "Tip, Ring Sleeve"... Switchcraft part number 297] and plug it in... if it sounds like the audio is losing level and filtering from like 1kHz down then you have what is known as a "one legged" connection [you're not driving the signal balanced anymore, you're only getting 1/2 the signal]... which means you get a "TS" 1/4" connector ["Tip Sleeve"... like the end on a guitar cable... Switchcraft part number 280], connect pin 2 from the XLR to the "tip" on the 1/4" connector then at the 1/4" end of the wire connect the wires from the other 2 pins [pin 3 and pin 1] together as you attach them to the sleeve connection on the 1/4" and you should be golden.

Best of luck with all you do.

 

[ridgeback]

Hold the phone a second here. The Project mix has both 1/4" and XLR inputs for each channel. Coming from the ART ProChannel to the Project Mix I'm running XLR. I should be running out of the 1/4" output jack of the ART to the 1/4" line input on the Project Mix?? What's the XLR out on the ART for then? Can't I run my signal balanced the whole way via XLR?

 

[ridgeback]

Whoa. If you turned phantom power on on the ProjectMix and you blew up the ART, then it sounds like you're plugging the ART into a Mic In and not a Line In on the PM. You shouldn't be doing that at all.

It looks like the PM has individual Mic/Line switches for their XLR inputs; make sure the channels coming out the Pro MPA (I assume its an MPA and not a VLA, right?) are set to "Line" on the PM. Duct tape those into place if you must.

G.

Ahhh Glen to the rescue again. He had the ProjectMix input set to mic input and not line. Yes they are switchable. Thus viola! Bzzzt. He hit the phantom power button on the PM and there you go. IF I'm understanding this correctly.

 

[bennychico11]

Ahhh Glen to the rescue again. He had the ProjectMix input set to mic input and not line. Yes they are switchable. Thus viola! Bzzzt. He hit the phantom power button on the PM and there you go. IF I'm understanding this correctly.

yeah, which is another reason you could just keep it 1/4" if you have it on the ART. Most likely the 1/4" out will be balanced and the 1/4" input on the PM will be balanced as well. You just have a choice of using XLR or 1/4"...but if it were me I'd just opt for 1/4"

 

[ridgeback]

yeah, which is another reason you could just keep it 1/4" if you have it on the ART. Most likely the 1/4" out will be balanced and the 1/4" input on the PM will be balanced as well. You just have a choice of using XLR or 1/4"...but if it were me I'd just opt for 1/4"

Yeah that would be smart. Unfortunately my patchbay is all XLR. Oh well back to the solder board. I've got a 1/4 patch laying around there somewhere. I don't like using adapters. Always the weakest link. Thanks guys!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Yeah that would be smart. Unfortunately my patchbay is all XLR. Oh well back to the solder board. I've got a 1/4 patch laying around there somewhere. I don't like using adapters. Always the weakest link. Thanks guys!

There are such things as XLR-to-TRS cables that remain balanced and are hardwired, no adapters needed. Just another option to look at if you don't want to switch out patch bays.

G.

 

[Fletcher]

Just change the end of the wire that goes from the patchbay to each unit and you're all set. If it takes more than 1/2 an hour to accomplish then you needed the soldering practice anyway.

Peace.

 

[mattkw80]

I'm confused, but it sounds like this is something I got to know.....

Southside Glen, would you please confirm something for me.....


I have :

ART TPS2 Pre-Amp
ART Compressor

and soon will have :

ProjectMix I/O


Just to confirm, this should be my cable / signal flow ---

1. Plug mic into ART Pre-Amp INPUT, and use phantom power
2. Plug OUTPUT from Pre-Amp into INPUT of Compressor with a 1/4 (guitar)cable
3. Plug OUTPUT of Compresser into 1/4" INPUT of project Mix with a 1/4 (guitar)cable


Is this right ?


Why do they even have XLR out's on the Preamp or compressor ?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Just to confirm, this should be my cable / signal flow ---

1. Plug mic into ART Pre-Amp INPUT, and use phantom power
2. Plug OUTPUT from Pre-Amp into INPUT of Compressor with a 1/4 (guitar)cable
3. Plug OUTPUT of Compresser into 1/4" INPUT of project Mix with a 1/4 (guitar)cable


Is this right ?

That looks basically correct. The only question I would have is your use of the term "(guitar)" cable. That would imply an unbalanced TS (Tip/Sleeve 2-conductor) cable. You'd have to double check the specs on your specific gear, but if they can handle TRS cables - still 1/4" plugs, but balanced 3-conductor TRS - it would be potehtially cleaner to use those. If they don't handle balanced I/O, that's still OK (but slightly less desireable), and then you'd use standard 2-conductor "guitar" cables.

Other than that question/option, it looks correct from what I can see. Also, just to be on the safe side, make sure you have the input switches on the Project Mix side set to "Line" instead of "Mic".

Why do they even have XLR out's on the Preamp or compressor ?

Because they physically are "better" connectors, can easily provide balanced capability, and because many studios have their gear connected to a patch bay, snake, or other breakout box that accept XLR.

But remember, just because you have XLR on one side doesn't mean that there *has* to be XLR on the other side of the cable. One can still use a TRS 1/4" on the other end, or, as many bigger studios have, hard soldered into DB-25 (25-pin) or other multi-pin mass connections

G.

 

[mattkw80]

I believe all this gear will handle TRS - I am just not very familiar with using them. (I never consider TRS cause it's foreign to me )

So... I take it that TRS is the same as XLR, as far as wiring is concerned - only the actual XLR connector's change ?

Anytime I think TRS - for some reason I think only of Stereo Applications.

But.... I guess I am wrong..... looks like TRS is just as much a mono application as well.

That looks basically correct. The only question I would have is your use of the term "(guitar)" cable. That would imply an unbalanced TS (Tip/Sleeve 2-conductor) cable. You'd have to double check the specs on your specific gear, but if they can handle TRS cables - still 1/4" plugs, but balanced 3-conductor TRS - it would be potehtially cleaner to use those. If they don't handle balanced I/O, that's still OK (but slightly less desireable), and then you'd use standard 2-conductor "guitar" cables.

Other than that question/option, it looks correct from what I can see. Also, just to be on the safe side, make sure you have the input switches on the Project Mix side set to "Line" instead of "Mic".Because they physically are "better" connectors, can easily provide balanced capability, and because many studios have their gear connected to a patch bay, snake, or other breakout box that accept XLR.

But remember, just because you have XLR on one side doesn't mean that there *has* to be XLR on the other side of the cable. One can still use a TRS 1/4" on the other end, or, as many bigger studios have, hard soldered into DB-25 (25-pin) or other multi-pin mass connections

G.

 

[bennychico11]

I believe all this gear will handle TRS - I am just not very familiar with using them. (I never consider TRS cause it's foreign to me )

So... I take it that TRS is the same as XLR, as far as wiring is concerned - only the actual XLR connector's change ?

Anytime I think TRS - for some reason I think only of Stereo Applications.

But.... I guess I am wrong..... looks like TRS is just as much a mono application as well.

that's the problem with a lot of people who are new to this. They see the connector on a cable that looks like the one on a pair of headphones and automatically think it's a "stereo cable"

Don't think of a cable as "stereo" or "mono"....or balanced/unbalanced. The cable is just a cable. The actual SIGNAL that passes down it is stereo, mono, balanced or unbalanced. The cable is just there to properly pass it on. And in order to properly pass it on you have to use the correct cable. The most common being a two conductor cable with a shield wrapped around the conductors. The two conductors in the cable can pass on a stereo signal with each channel using it's own conductor...or it can pass on a balanced signal with each representation of the original signal being on it's own conductor. It all depends on the gear you're plugging it into. A mono signal can be sent down a two conductor cable just as well as a stereo signal can.

Then you also have a single conductor cable that can be used with RCA connectors...or even TS connectors.

Just figure out what the gear you're using accepts and use the proper cable for it.