Hunting the Violin sound...

  • Thread starter Thread starter James Argo
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James Argo

James Argo

Fancy Rock N' Roll
...guys, it's been a week I want to make different music than I usually do. This time I do New Age thing. I record the MIDI piano great. MIDI Pad & MIDI backing strings as well. Here we go... capturing the lead violin. I play the violin myself, even since I'm not that pro, but it just to fit the song I made. The whole songs melody is played by violin. I have several good refference such like Secret Garden, Yanni, Jean Luc Ponty, etc... and I was trying to capture the sound close to them. Anyway, I don't have a thousands $ gear they do. Not even a propher violin. Just average acoustic violin (Hofner) with pickup Fishman SV-100. I have Korg AX-30G (...yup, guitar FX), Mackie 1202, and several homer gear. I've spent a weekfull in my home studio, trying to capture the caracter of electric violin using my acoustic violin... can't even get close. Tried to mic it (using SM57), still doesn't work. Sometime the bowing is rough, or get too "metal" sound. There's not much Violin engineer in town I can ask for suggestion. So I'll ask here, what's your comment to get an "Electric" violin sound using Acoustic violin ? I don't think I'm gonna buy anything in addition, just use my present gear, and try to get as close as possible. Any comment I would consider to be my next experiment to try. If any of you had any experience to work with bowed string instrument, would you please to share your secret here ? Thank you so much, I appreciate those...
:)
 
I can't help with an electric violin sound, but a better acoustic violin tone is often a matter on not micing on axis to the f holes. My favorite mic placement is over the headstock at the height of the top of my head pointed at my chin, usually using a ribbon mic.

I know from playing live where the pickup is placed (if it is a piezo type) is very important to the sound. Also, with you playing a not so good violin and maybe being not so good a player, you might not get a good sound
 
Yo Argonaut:

I have some great patches on a Yamaha DX7 ROM cartridge. Of course I refer to violin/string patches.

I could put them on tape and send them to you but I don't know if you have a sampler to redo the patches; as a matter of fact, if you don't have a DX7, I don't know exactly how I could get these sounds to you.

If you know, let me know.

:D :D Green Hornet
 
i have captured some beautiful violon sounds.
we wanted a very ambient feel. violin over soft, finger picked "jumpy" electric guitars. so, i had the violinist sit on the floor (nice wooden floor, lots of nice reflections). then, i positioned one ECM8000 about 2 or 3 feet from the violin from right above it. Then i put another ECM8000 about 6 feet away in a corner near the ceiling. managed to get a beautiful sound. try and get your hands on a pair of ECM8000s and see what you can do. and no, i didn't have amazing pres. just the shitty ones on my behringer mixer :) it can be done...
 
Hi,
Try to plug your pickup into a Pod, Rocktron, Gp-100 or something equalent. Try different sounds and maybe you can find it here.

Have a listen to our band using an electric violin through a Rocktron Voodo Valve at www.hagen.nu

Hans
 
The Green Hornet said:
Yo Argonaut:

I have some great patches on a Yamaha DX7 ROM cartridge. Of course I refer to violin/string patches.

I could put them on tape and send them to you but I don't know if you have a sampler to redo the patches; as a matter of fact, if you don't have a DX7, I don't know exactly how I could get these sounds to you.

If you know, let me know.

:D :D Green Hornet
Click to expand...
Yo Hornet:
DX7 patches made me horny... :eek: ouuuuch...
:D :D :D
 
My progress so far...

Hmmm, So far I'm getting closer to my specific sound. Thanks Petimar for the idea, it worked great, I replace the pickup position, it used to be about snaped in the bridge, below the G string. I replace to snap below E string... I was affraid, thought it will tend to capture more "high" and sharp, but I was wrong... Yess... the sound becomes more mild, melow and gentle. The low part of the violin (String G & D) ain't doin' so good before, -sounds too acoustic-, but now I can capture it just perfect balanced to sound I get on the highest part ( String A & E ). I also make an experience with mic replacement like Petimar mentioned, it gave me another dimension of sound, but not quite what I look for by now. May be some other time I'll consider this miking technic. And since I hunt specific certain sound, I think it needs special mic also, rather than SM57 / SM 58. Now I don't use mic, just the pick up.

Hans, I used to just route the pickup to Mackie, then I tried plug it to Korg AX-300 (...that's all I got for now :( ) to use it's preamp. And though it's for electric guitar, it works better than Mackie (in a certain view). And thanks for the link. That's cool.

Keep goin' with your opinion guys...
:cool:
 
One Different

I play in a Celtic World beat band where the Violinist plays an electric violin. He has one of those piezo bridges and it really works great. If you don't want to spend any $$ for a new bridge I have recorded his acoustic from underneath (about 18" to 2ft below) and 1-2 ft in front of the headstock with a good condensor mic and got a very resonable facsimile. You have to get away from the F-holes and bow sounds to get a more electric sound.

t-mix
 
oh you aren't using mics!? oops sorry! well, all i can say then is try and get a pair of ECM8000s! they are nice and cheap too...
 
Re: One Different

tmix said:
You have to get away from the F-holes and bow sounds to get a more electric sound.
Click to expand...

Aaah, you got the point. The F-holes and bow sound, that's exactly what I don't want to take.

Hey Lucid, I avoid mic, cause I don't have any propher mic for violin. I dunno, but I only have a couple of SM57, 4 mic SM58, Rhode NT, and several cheap mic at my home studio. I wish I have better ones. But may be I'll try miking again tomorow...
;)
 
James,
Can the Korg AX-300 simulate a guitar amp? That's what you need I think.

Hans
 
hrn said:
James,
Can the Korg AX-300 simulate a guitar amp? That's what you need I think.
Click to expand...

Yes indeed, hans. It has the Amp sim, but I noticed it adds noise in decent level whether I turn it on. It's an old stuff... :(

:cool:
 
My favorite pickup for fiddle is the Shirtler guitar pickup. It gives a pretty natural acoustic tone. For a more electric tone try the Zeta type pickups. You'd probably get the best results with a solid body instrument.

As I go for the most acoustic sound possible, I've found that most any piezo pickup usually just sound like a combination of a bad acoustic and bad electric instrument. the best of these I've found is the Pickup Of The World.
 
Thanks for the info guys, specially petimar :cool:. Now I can get the closest sound I look for (consider the lack of gear), and about to make an adjustment and editing. I couldn't wait untill it's mixing done and post the result in clinic.


Cheers.
Jaymz.
 
see... slight problem... it was a project started, and got kinda messed... so the guitars are off... and then the violinist left so we coudln't redo it. i can post the violin tracks if you guys show me how :)
 
...Hey lucid, get sign in www.nowhereradio.com there you can upload your song to be reviewed. All in mp3 format. Post your link here or in the clinic, so we can get to your page. I curious where's DavidK when we need him the most...? :confused: :D


;)
 
Firstly, use a condenser, large diaphram very nice.

Find a tight room, either dead or fairly bright like a bath room, but not inbetween, or you will get a sound that is indefinite. Make sure there is not too much reverb in bathroom.

In dead room, on a stan, place the condenser facing the player and violin, about 3 foot away, you will then get a close, full tone sound.

In bathroom, place the mic about 2 foot away, you will get a nice lively sound but still get the full body.

If u go too close, you have to know what you are doing to place the mic correctly. The big pros use distance and an appropriate room.

To get the electric sound, once recorded, insert a tube guitar amp simulator on that track but minimise the gain. You dont want to hear the distortion, but you want the edge, it will compress a little, but the pickup sound is basically going thru circuitry, which always usually has a ever so slight distortion to it, but definitely edgy sound.

Lastly, to get rid of that bow sound, you need to just use better technique.

This should work.

A dynamic isnt that great, the violin usually doesnt put out enuff sound pressure level to make the mic work, plus most dynamics dont capture the brilliance an instrument such as a violin puts out.

cheers
 
...Yo kalvinator, Thank you so much for that !!! That's the best reply I get in this thread. So clear, plain, logic and understoodable. I tried that technic last night, and amazed on how I get the sound. It works even with my cheap violin. I've got both dead room (drums booth) and bathroom not that far from my mixing desk, so I can do your suggest just fine.

Okay, now I'm in the bathroom playing the violin... now, who's gonna push the rec button in console room ?

Kiddin' ya... :D
 
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