huge SP guitar sound is great, but how???

S

System_Failure

New member
Hey, after reading a bunch of interviews about the smashing pumpkins i decided i'd try my hand at recording around 15 guitar tracks for one song to try and get that insane wall of noise that is present on a lot of siamese dream. Unfortunately i'm not quite sure how i should try to mix this as i can just image the muddy mess it'll be as soon as everythings recorded. Any tips or tricks to doing this? Thanks for your help
 
Noise gate is going to be a good idea, but maybe you do this at the editing stage and are done. I think some careful panning would be in order.
 
Uh . . . hmmm.

I'd start out by tracking and eq'ing each track radically different from the other.

Maybe have a couple of tracks around that are mike'd close with a bass drum mic . . . cut most of the highs and a lot of the mids, and bring up these tracks to add / subract bass from the overall guitar mix.

Maybe mic a few others with a small diaphragm condenser pointed directly at the grill a foot back or so, boost the highs a bit on the amp and use the brighter sounding pickup, etc. Cut some lows out of the tracks, and use these them to add presence as needed. Same idea with the mids . . . try your best to get a really honky, low-fi kind of thing going and use that track for the mids.

Try another track with an sm57 at the rear of the amp and eq that a little differently. Try different amp settings . . . maybe a direct take . . . maybe another using a POD setting. Mix it up. Try everything, and if something doesn't bring anything to the mix, then junk it.

Oh, and this is very important: Try playing the same chords, or variations of the same chords, in different positions on the fret board.

Good luck.
 
You'd better be a darn good guitar player to do that many tracks. TIMING IS CRUCIAL. I mean timing so close that you can't even tell there are multiple guitars in a mono mix. Layering just 6 electric guitars takes me about 10 hours in the studio, and thats with other people doing all the engineering and production work.

Chessrock is right on about different sounds. I'd start with a mesa-type distortion, thick and scooped....play just power chords. Double the part...I mean TIGHT. Like I said, in mono, it should sound like only 1 guitar. The add a nasaly grit distortion.... like a vox with the mid cranked and the bass cut. Double the part...TIGHT Then do a part with a fender clean sparkle sound. Play all the chords in a 2nd position with this track. Double it. TIGHT

Then listen. Where you go from there is up to you. Noise gates aren't needed, you need to focus on playing technique.

H2H
 
You know on one of those albums, Siamese I think, he used like 3 distortion pedals in a row. Weird sound. Lotsa layers. If you arent that tight, try using Vocalign to tighten up the tracks some. Truly, all you need is 2 mics on the same cabinet, different mics, at best spots and in phase...
record both mics and then double it, pan both (all 4) left... do the same with right. You only have 4 actual guitar overdubs, but 8 tracks total. Very fat sound. An SM57 and Sennheiser 421 on the same speaker are a very well known big-boy combo. If you dont have a good preamp, you just lost half the fight.
 
Oh, try seperate guitars or rigs L & R if you have em. Or maybe vary the mics different from left to right.
 
AFAIK
strat, lace sensors
Big muff into a 2203
swapped the el34s out for 6l6s

I think I read something somewhere about having the amp tone controls rolled all the way off to give the sound a big ass.
 
Alright, I remember a little, too. He used a bunch of guitars, but his main one was a '62 (?) reissue strat with lace sensors. He also used a bunch of Jag's, Les Paul's etc.

I forget the amp stuff, but I think there was a JMP-1 and some kinda Mesa power amp involved. I also recall something about turning the master volume up all the way, and upping the gain until it sounded right. Mind you, I could be making that up. However, probably most importantly....

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=64239&highlight=metal+guitar

The post about halfway down by " pipelineaudio " is the one you want. They used this exact mic placement technique.
 
Metallica's Black CD was only two rhythem guitar tracks, with a "sweetening" effect.

The only thing I have ever managed to do with more than two guitar tracks is muck up the sound. Instead of becoming bigger and more powerful, the guitar tends to sound smaller and weaker.

I contend that two well tracked guitar will sound VERY big and powerful, more so than more tracks than that. But, I suppose it is taste. I know people that think this "new metal" sound is better than some older recordings. Indeed, they have a lot more hash on the top end, andd sub information that is pretty deep. But "better" sounding is VERY subjective. "Powerful" is VERY subjective too. Some of the most powerfull and punchy productions I have ever done were also the ones that had the least tracks on it!!!

Beware of the multiple guitar track trap. Try going for a great tone first, then see if after two tracks of a great tone if you really need ANY more than that. I think you will see that you don't.

Ed
 
The whole drop tuning mania has a lot to do with today's "power" sounds too, because of the harmonics involved. A dropped D5 has a lot more bang-whollop than your standard E5. It also allows you to double or triple-stop all your single note lines. This is what makes Soundgarden's "Outshined" so heavy.

Also, if you are playing double stops like that, you can simulate an additional guitar doubling the part by playing only octaves with the first and third fingers.

Any further down in heaviness and you'll find yourself in mudsville. I've heard very few productions with the 7 string or B tunings where the engineer successfully handled the low end. When it is handled effectively, the bass guitar is almost rubbed out of the mix. Sometimes I wonder if the bass is even there to begin with. All I hear is chunky guitars and a kick.

Cy
 
I'm still somewhat of a beginner at home recording, but I'm a huge SP fan and I've recorded some Pumpkiny stuff... so maybe I can help.

Just the basics-- it helps to pan the tracks so that they're spread out around the listener. Also, you should be using a drummer or at least a drum machine, if you're trying for that full band Pumpkiny sorta sound... and bass of course (preferably with an attractive female bassist). And I definitely agree with what Hard2Hear said about how timing is crucial. If you can record the part exactly the same all 15 times, then you'll be okay. DON'T think that just because there are a lot of tracks that each one doesn't have to be perfect. They do have to be perfect! Or it will turn into a mess.

If there's one useful thing I can tell you about all this, it's that you should check out some live Pumpkins material (they just rereleased a live CD/DVD from '94 called Earphoria and Vieuphoria, respectively). You'll see that they did a pretty good job of getting that thick layered sound live, even with just two guitars. So it's not always studio magic... a lot of it has to do with the guitars, effects, and amps. Personally, I've tried the layered guitar approach, and now I'm finding that I prefer to just have two rhythm guitars.
 
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